Mission 7

[Gianky]

Ok, I give up.

How the hell are you supposed to win this mission? Air to air cover is useless, the 4 MiG-21s mop the floors with the Phantom and the other F-5... I tried to sneak away but they always come to me and I have to fight. With ordnance under my wing. Even when I get away from them, I'm low on fuel and have no more flares and I find myself on the wrong end of an Igla. I'm attaching the Tacview track of my last attempt.

Any advice is welcome.

@SorelRo did you, by any chance, rebalance this mission after the changes in AI BVR and BFM behaviour? Maybe put 4 Phantoms in CAP, instead of only 2?

Tacview-20230206-223022-DCS-F5-E-C7.zip.acmi

[SorelRo]

It's in the works. I was hoping to include the AI for the new F-4, so I won't have to do it twice. I'll have a look at the Tacview, but, Mig-21's are very smart at avoiding AIM-7's now. That throws the whole thing out of balance. 

[Gianky]

Thank you SorelRo.

I'm afraid it really is out of balance: I tried everything, including, as you will see, not following the route and trying to sneak directly to the enemy column, but it's so close to the reservoir that eventually they come hunting me down. I'll try flying further south, even though I'm afraid I'll end up in SAM land (besides, a couple more jets come from SE if the 21s die...).

Please, fix it, if you can!

Edited February 7, 2023 by Gianky

[SorelRo]

I'm on it! Thanks 

[Gianky]

Thank you!

[Odessa]

Yeah. Mission 7 is really difficult. 
4 MiG21 vs 2 F-4 + 2 F-5 with bombs + me with bombs.
And even if you survive air battle and Migs go home then you are alone against two Iglas. You are alone because F-5 CAS dropped their bombs during air battle or they are dead already.
As I understand I should not bother with MiGs and go for convoy but it such case MiGs kill eveybody including helos.
For now I am trying to jettison bombs, scare MiGs away and hit MANPADS with rockets.
I hope cannon will be able to finish the trucks.
No luck yet. Either MiG or Igla kills me.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Odessa

[Odessa]

I passed it!
1.Engage MiG-21. If 5 of you kills 2 of them and you still alive - good.
2. Attack convoy from above 9000.

In my case I destroyed approx 2/3 of convoy and was badly hit by AAA and MANPADS.
Lost all generators, flaps, air brakes , undercarriage, most of instruments.
While limping to base asked helos to do pick up.
They did.
I landed on a belly on airstrip and watched how Mig-23 chased Huey and how MiGs were shot down by my own SAM on my airfiled!
That was amazing!
 

[SorelRo]

7 hours ago, Odessa said:

I passed it!
1.Engage MiG-21. If 5 of you kills 2 of them and you still alive - good.
2. Attack convoy from above 9000.

In my case I destroyed approx 2/3 of convoy and was badly hit by AAA and MANPADS.
Lost all generators, flaps, air brakes , undercarriage, most of instruments.
While limping to base asked helos to do pick up.
They did.
I landed on a belly on airstrip and watched how Mig-23 chased Huey and how MiGs were shot down by my own SAM on my airfiled!
That was amazing!
 

It should have been a hard mission, but not that hard. AI and how they choose to behave is becoming more of a challenge, also the Igla's used to be quite dumb when preflared, now they are really accurate. Ohh well, I'm trying to adjust it but it's not a battle that i'm winning so far. 

[pabletesoy]

Perhaps a fix in the next patch?

[SorelRo]

If you read the forum, you will see that this campaign is going through a full overhaul. Unfortunately it won't be in the next patch. 

[pabletesoy]

No problem, keep up the work!

I'm on mission 7, should I wait for the review to finish or can I continue playing the campaign?

[SorelRo]

Continue playing it man, then if you would like you could replay it. I'm not the one to tell you what to do.  

[pabletesoy]

I was asking because if the campaign is being revised, perhaps it means that it encounters "blocking" missions (like this mission 7, for example

[SorelRo]

You could always skip a mission, if it becomes frustrating, This campaign was never easy to begin with, it could be very taxing if you make any mistakes and you expose to SAM or to the Mig's. 

[pabletesoy]

I have found that instead of following the WYP route, I can fly directly to the target an the MIGs do not notice my presence and head towards my partners.

The problem is that I don't see a way to elimiate the mapads. Bombs require me to get too close. Rockets launched in the normal way also require me to get too close, so I've been trying to do "loft" launches (from level flight I pull the stick upwards when I shoot so that the rockets have more range), but the impacts are very random and it's very difficult to eliminate the manpads exactly.

I've moved closer so that the mapads can shoot at me and locate their position (from above they can't be seen) which is very dangerous. Even avoiding the first few launches, I end up being shot down on the next maneuver.

I have also tried changing the armament and using CBU but it doesn't make much sense to launch them from so high up.

Is it possible that I should focus my attack on the conboy and forget about the infantry?

 

Any suggestions? Sorry for my English!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 29 by pabletesoy

[SorelRo]

Be careful when cutting across waypoints like this, triggers may not be triggered, as the missions are built around a very precise flying, bombs, do not require you to be close, you can drop way over the SAM range, you need careful aiming, also, rockets, have quite a good range, I believe you are trying to get in too close, also, pre-flare, drop a few flares when you turn into your attack and keep releasing flares as you go down the "chute" A good pass or two will take everyone out, or almost everyone, also, don't dive with the afterburners on. this way the missile will go for the flare and not your engine, if you want to bait them, you can do a few parallel runs at high speed and pull away when you notice the launch, they don't have a resupply truck, so the will ran out.  

[pabletesoy]

Thanks, very good advice! I will continue testing. By the way, how many missiles can an Igla launch?

 

 

 

 

 

[SorelRo]

I believe that there are 2 per launcher, but I may be wrong, keep in mind that the Igla's performance was changed when it was introduced to the KA-50 and it is way too accurate and precise, but that's not something I can change or tinker with.

[pabletesoy]

Finally, after infinite attempts, mission accomplished. I'll leave some help from my side.

After many attempts wiht rockets from far away I decided to make low passes to provoke the mapads to shoot at me.

- Remove the Chaffs and get full off Flares.
- Try to arrive to WYPT_3 behind the other two F5s. MG21s will go after them while you head south to attack the comboy.
- If you don't go through WYPT3 the communications with the rescue team may not be activated.
- It takes 3 passes for the manpads to fire 6 missiles and run out of ammo (above 500 mph, very very low flying, dropping flares and without AF)

- Once the mapads run out of ammunition, attack the conboy with bombs and rockets. As soon as you hit them they will stop advancing. It is easy to get hit with their ammunition (I came home without a Left generator and without hydraulics).

- Warning: in the second rocket pass, two MIG23s from the South were spotted (luckily there was an F5 hovering around to entertain them).

- Curiosity: recates helicopters shot down a MIG21

 

Feedback :
- no communication with the other F5 and Phantons.
- very difficult, you need another F5 to go with you to finish with the manpads.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3 by pabletesoy

[=Skywarp=]

This mission is very difficult

[Bashibazouk]

I've played this mission about 10-12 times already and am yet to complete it (yes, I know - skill issue).

One thing I've found is because the AI can act differently each time, a time window to complete the task can close.  Sometimes the 4 Migs die easily, especially if they stray over the northern airfield and a barrage of stingers go for them. But it's important they are dealt with quickly by the friendly AI. I've never had much luck taking part myself with the loaded down plane, I just end up getting to the CAS too late and I need that time to bait the Iglas into firing at me or the Mig-23s come at me before I've done the business with the ground advance troops. And if I've fired off the sidewinders at the 21s, am still loaded with bombs, then even the Mig-23s, in combination with the iglas and SAMs.... well. I'm not good enough to deal with all that at once.

I read above that the MANPADs have 3 Iglas each. Ok, that's where I'm at. I couldn't work out why I died last time after baiting four and having everything else done perfectly. Also, don't go too far east when baiting as there are SAMs there thirsty for your blood. 

Now, I'm going in again, wish me luck. Hopefully my F5s and F4s will dispatch the Mig-21s quickly, then I can go and bait those Iglas from about 10k (six of them to trigger - I assumed there were only four!) then get the task done before the 23s turn up and home in time for breakfast. 

This has been a tricky one for me, but I think I'm there, maybe one or two more goes, assuming one of them goes my way with the AI dogfight near the reservoir. I haven't found it particularly frustrating as every attempt I learn something new and I have a decision tree to follow. I only find the missions where I have no idea of what to do next frustrating, this isn't one of them once I'd learned the ropes.

 

[I am really looking forward to DCS implementing the mid mission save. With a mission like this it will increase the enjoyment a lot, I could do a savegame just after takeoff, avoiding the whole startup rigmarole, maybe 10 minutes or so,  or I could do a savegame after a quick successful AI vs AI dogfight, as that can be a bit random and go straight to the CAS section.]