LD-10 Missile Doing No Damage on Direct Hit

[DevArchitect]

Got a track for the LD-10 missile not doing any damage on a direct hit. This occurred on the instant action mission in Single Player.

LD10_No_Damage.trk

[Pede]

1 hour ago, DevArchitect said:

Got a track for the LD-10 missile not doing any damage on a direct hit. This occurred on the instant action mission in Single Player.

LD10_No_Damage.trk 2.76 MB · 2 downloads

What was the target? LD10 has a tiny warhead. If you hit a gepard or other armored system, it won't do any damage because it won't penetrate the armor. 

[DevArchitect]

I believe it was an SA-11 system. Even so, a direct hit should take the radar offline even if it doesn't kill the vehicle.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

SA-11 are quite durable in DCS, they eat 23mm for breakfast

[Pede]

That sounds like an issue with the Sa11 damage model. LD10 should have a ~20kg warhead, which should damage an Sa11 on a direct hit, even as HE/Frag. Also it not being susceptible to 23mm rounds is questionable; it uses the same chasis as Tunguska and Tor, which iirc is only adequately protected agaisnt HMG's not autocannons. Might take this one to ED. 

[antiload]

 

[WinterH]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:33 PM, Pede said:

Also it not being susceptible to 23mm rounds is questionable

23mm HE rounds do very, very little to anything with armor in DCS for some time now. Is this realistic or not, I can't realiably tell, maybe the HE rounds go off instantly before they have a chance to go through the armor, or maybe they aren't hard enough and shatter upon impact, or maybe their penetration is somewhat under modeled after all. GSh-23L isn't particularly high velocity though, and JF-17's gun only has HE rounds available, and I think we don't have an option to choose any other ammo belt options.

Speaking for BMP-1, if you hit it from side with an oblique angle, JF-17s HE rounds will destroy it just fine for example, but if your rounds land with a shallow angle, they won't do any damage, something I've tested a few years ago: 

In my experience even .50 cal guns tend to more reliably do damage to light armor.

 

[Pede]

2 hours ago, WinterH said:

23mm HE rounds do very, very little to anything with armor in DCS for some time now. Is this realistic or not, I can't realiably tell, maybe the HE rounds go off instantly before they have a chance to go through the armor, or maybe they aren't hard enough and shatter upon impact, or maybe their penetration is somewhat under modeled after all. GSh-23L isn't particularly high velocity though, and JF-17's gun only has HE rounds available, and I think we don't have an option to choose any other ammo belt options.

Speaking for BMP-1, if you hit it from side with an oblique angle, JF-17s HE rounds will destroy it just fine for example, but if your rounds land with a shallow angle, they won't do any damage, something I've tested a few years ago: 

In my experience even .50 cal guns tend to more reliably do damage to light armor.

 

23x115 isn't a very powerful cartridge, but it is more powerful than this. It has a max penetration of 26mm (RHA equivalent) while the side armor of the BMP ranges from 18mm to 16mm. And that's based on the specifications for the HE rounds, not the API which should have considerably more penetration. Furthermore the roof armor is only 6mm which should be able to be penetrated by the HE charge itself, even if not considering the penetration of the round. Have you sent this to ED?

 

Edit: watching the video, it seems that penetration with HE is possible, but just very inconsistent. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Pede
Update

[Napillo]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:07 AM, WinterH said:

JF-17's gun only has HE rounds available

that needs to be fixed, we need AP, otherwise why would they mount the gun at an angle? If you can't barely take out ground targets, it seems like you could just tilt the gun up a couple degrees and make it for air to air use, but noooo they pointed the gun down. Also, why can't we have the 30mm ones?

[WinterH]

Yeah the option to choose a different ammo belt would go a long way.

[Napillo]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:46 AM, WinterH said:

different ammo belt

https://www.arsenal-bg.com/c/23x115-mm-rounds-for-aircraft-automatic-guns-gsh-23-gsh-23l-gsh-6-23m-and-am-23-134

[ShadowFrost]

As to the original bug, it is known and reported internally.