New to Virpil club - Questions/Comments

[Chops]

I just received the Constellation Alpha Prime, 50CM3 base, 50CM3 throttle, desk mount V4-S, and Desk mount V2/V3/V4 Adapter

I had to wait 3 months for delivery of my items, which as you know are very expensive.  I placed my order at the end of November 2022.  My first impressions are not good so far.

The online video reviews of these products that I watched prior to purchase, indicated that they come with the allen wrenches and other wrenches needed to configure and adjust the base and throttle.  Unfortunately, Virpil did not include any tools and did not provide a list of the tools and sizes needed.  I was told by Virpil that they no longer provide the necessary tools.

Does anyone know the types and sizes of tools that I will need to change cams, springs, and detents?

Also, I failed to order a desk mount for the CM3 base.   Virpil said that it could be another month to get a new desk mount for the base.  Does anyone know other manufacturers that provide desk mounts or base mounts that work with the CM3 base?  I am hoping to find another solution more quickly.

Are there any base plates for the CM3 base available like the Warbird base?  I was thinking that I might just mount it flat on my desk, and drill holes to secure it, however I need some sort of base plate that will attach to the CM3 base.

I asked Virpil if they could give me a discount if I purchased another desk mount and rudder pedals, and they said no.  It seems to me that would be appropriate considering the situation I outlined above. 

Thanks if you can provide some assistance.

[imacken]

Have a look at the manual here

[BASE] VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base - User Manual : VIRPIL Controls Support Center

Yes, they've stopped including the allen keys, but just buy a full set from Amazon for a few pounds. Very useful thing to own, not just for gaming.

Re your experience, yes 3 months is pretty typical at the moment. have a look at this thread

New Ordering Process Live! - Community Discussion - General Discussion - VIRPIL Controls

 

[dburne]

Good quality metric allen wrench set is a must have for these great boutique flight gear hardware. My CM3 stick Base did come with two allen wrenches but I tossed them aside as I prefer my own.

[Chops]

Thanks for the responses.  I am disappointed that I failed to order a desk mount for my new CM3 base with my original order.  Had to place a new order today and guess I won't be able to use the new base and stick for another couple of months.

In case anyone has the same questions about the tools required; here is what I have found so far:

For cams and springs in the base -

3 mm allen wrench (also called Hex)

4 mm allen wrench

For detents on the throttle -

2.5 mm allen wrench

Adjust throttle tension -

10 mm open end wrench (also called spanner)

Desk Mount Adapter -

4 mm allen wrench

8 mm open end wrench 

10 mm open end wrench

Mount throttle to desk mount -

4 mm allen wrench

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Chops
Added information

[itx]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:07 PM, dburne said:

Good quality metric allen wrench set is a must have for these great boutique flight gear hardware. My CM3 stick Base did come with two allen wrenches but I tossed them aside as I prefer my own.

I agree...my rc helicopter flying days (prior to simming) paid off. https://www.miponline.com/mip-rc-tools has a nice set for the 2.0mm, 2.5mm, 3.0. I haven't found a place to get 4mm and +

[imacken]

As I said above, you get the full set for a few pounds on Amazon. This is what I bought about a year ago. Covers all the above - and much more  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Imperial-Combined-Pattern-Hexagon/dp/B00JKIZQHU/ref=sr_1_7?crid=262EOP8CRBNN9&keywords=allen+key+set&qid=1677828324&sprefix=Allen%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-7

[Chops]

I am now trying to configure the CM3 Throttle for the DCS F/A-18C.  I am using the warthog detents, and now trying to figure out the software.

@imacken I found a post where you outlined the process of configuring the Virpil software for idle/cutoff and afterburner.  It looks like your post is about a year old.  Do you have an updated guide?  I was reading the first few steps (1C, 1D) and can't even find these settings in the software so I am not making much progress.

Virpil's manuals really don't seem to be very helpful as far as using the software.

In the screenshot attached, under the Source heading there are 6 items listed.  Do I need to calibrate the VPC_Sens or VPC_Stick ?

Edit:  Looks like rX is Left Throttle, rY is Right Throttle, and rZ is the lever on the right side of the Throttle.  I am guessing that I need to calibrate rX and rY which are VPC_Sens, rather than the X and Y VPC_Stick.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Chops

[Chops]

@imacken Whew.....after a lot of time and effort, I finally got to Step 1 - L.  However I don't see anything showing 2 new buttons, and I am not really understanding this logical to physical button mapping thing.  

[imacken]

Can you post a screenshot of your axis tab (as per your first post) and one of the throttle axis tabs, i.e. rX or rY, by double clicking on one in the main axis tab?

[Chops]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:34 PM, imacken said:

Can you post a screenshot of your axis tab (as per your first post) and one of the throttle axis tabs, i.e. rX or rY, by double clicking on one in the main axis tab?

Here are the screens you requested.  Thanks for the help.   In the configuration shown below, the afterburner in the F18 works great, and the only thing I did was enter Detent 2 as 67%.

However, I can't get the idle function to work at all.

 

[imacken]

That all looks pretty good.

A couple of tweaks I would suggest.  Firslty, set 'sticky deadzone' to 0, and secondly give your hardware buttons values that are a it below your first detent calibration value. Try 45800 and 30800?  This gives a bit of leeway when going over the physical detent.

Re the idle function, can you post your button tab?  Have you defined the logical buttons for your new hardware defined ones?

[Chops]

@imacken I appreciate the help and suggestions.

In case anyone is interested here is how I got the CM3 Throttle idle/cutoff and afterburner setup in DCS for the F/A-18C:

So, I started over and created a new profile and calibrated the axes in the VPC software, then I followed the  @imacken guide dated April 5, 2022

On 4/5/2022 at 1:02 PM, imacken said:

If you’re looking to configure the detents on the CM3, you don’t need virtual any more with the new software. Here is a guide I have posted over in the Virpil forums - more than once!

Virpil Throttle Detent Setup
1)    Idle detent.
a.    The new versions of VPC software have a new way of defining the detents with buttons for off/idle.  We will just concentrate on the idle detent, as DCS does not have buttons for activating the afterburners.
b.    To configure the idle detent, it is necessary to do several steps.
c.    Firstly, in the axis settings page, change the calibration to ‘Both Detents’.
d.    Place the stick in the off position – fully aft - and input the raw value in the ‘Axis begin’ box by double clicking. The value will be entered automatically.  Also, enter ‘0’ in the ‘output %’ box, then
e.    Place the stick in the idle position (just past the 1st detent) and input the raw value into the ‘Detent #1’ by the same method above.  Also input ‘0’ - yes, 0 again! - in the ‘output %’ field.  I also recommend a ‘Deadzone %’ of 5 for Detent #1 to compensate for the handle movement when going past the physical detent.
f.    Do ‘Axis end’ and ‘Detent #2’ in the same way. (See below for ‘Detent #2 advice.)
g.    Then, you have to define the idle off virtual button. (This is also done in a new way to before.)  Firstly, note the ‘Axis begin’ and ‘Detent #1’ raw values, 29423 and 29905 in my case.
h.    Do this for both axes (inputting the appropriate values for each!).
i.    Go to the Axis page in VPC software, and look at the ‘Axis to button’ section.
j.    Select your axis – 1 for rX and 2 for rY, in my case – and then under ‘Type’ select ‘hardware’. Then enter the ‘Range from’ and ‘Range to’ values so that your raw values between the off and 1st detent are included. For the above values, I would input 29400 and 29800 to allow for a margin of error.
k.    REMEMBER TO ‘SAVE VPC DEVICE’ for any of these changes to take effect!
l.    If you then go to the Button page in VPC Configurator, you can see what physical button the software has allocated your 2 new buttons to, and then give them logical buttons that you can then bind to for off/idle in DCS. (Each module has slightly different naming and binds for this, but it works well for all for me, but you do have to make the correct choices for the binding in DCS.)
2)    Afterburner detent.
a.    The purpose of setting this a value in Detent #2 in VPC Configurator is twofold. Firstly, to correct the discrepancies in the throttle outputs when they are not bound together by the axis lock lever, and secondly, to coordinate the afterburner kick in spot in DCS.
b.    Looking at each one in turn, firstly, if an output value for the position at the second detent is not set, you will see that the 2 axes have different output values throughout the throw, but easy to see when both are at the 2nd detent.  (In my case, the left is 67% and the right is 70%).  This discrepancy can cause issues in-game with the imbalance. It is adjusted to the lower of the two when the axes are hardware linked, but still, this is a better solution.  When you set a – same for both axes - value for the 2nd detent in VPC software that issue disappears.  This is done by inputting the desired value into the ‘Detent#2 Input’ and ‘Output %’ boxes of the axis setting tab in VPC Configurator.  (You put the stick at the 2nd detent and double click in the input box. The raw value at that point will automatically be filled in.  Also, put in the required output %age in the appropriate box. In the above example, 67% would probably be the optimal value, but see next step.)
c.    Secondly, syncing with DCS for the afterburner kick-in point.  In my experience, leaving this at default means that the axes are not sufficiently advanced in DCS to fire the afterburner at the original output level when just going past the 2nd detent. (In my case it is 67% with both axes linked.)  So, in order to fix this, it is necessary to find what your output level is to match that required by DCS to fire the ABs.  This is largely trial and error, and in my case it is 74%.  This works well for Hornet, Viper, F-5E, Viggen, etc. The only one that still had a slight delay was the Mirage, but I was OK with that.  When you get the correct value for the output level input to VPC Configurator, the afterburners kick in just past the 2nd detent, and it feels much better.
d.    Now, the other thing you have to do, is adjust the planes that don’t have afterburners, e.g. Harrier, A-10C, warbirds, etc., to allow to you have the full travel between detents, rather than having to go past the 2nd detent to get full throttle.  You do this by adjusting the ‘Saturation X’ in Axis Tune for each module affected to the value you set above, in my case 74%.
 

I hope you find it useful. 

 

Below are the screenshots of my VPC software configuration for idle/cutoff and afterburner -

 

 

 

[imacken]

Glad you got it all working nicely!

[Chops]

48 minutes ago, imacken said:

Glad you got it all working nicely!

I noticed when reading through a lot of posts on the subject of idle/cutoff settings, that a lot of people had to go into the Axis Tune settings within DCS and make complicated adjustments to Saturation and other settings.  I didn't do this, so am wondering why my setup is apparently working ok.  Any ideas?

[imacken]

Well, the method you are using is the one I put together a while ago. Not everyone uses that method. Others may involve changing saturations etc.

However, you do have to adjust saturation values as per my point 2)d in the post you linked to for planes that don't have afterburners.

[JupiterJoe]

Hi, I have an unbalanced output when the throttles are split in the F-14.  I have both cutoff/idle and afterburner detents installed.  Even when the throttle are joined I get slightly more power from the left engine than the right.  For example, I gradually go off centreline when taxiing.   Any advice?  Thank you:

 

null

[imacken]

Try Axes Curves>Throttle Linearity Calculation.  Bit fiddly, but that should help.  Go through it slowly until you get ticks in all intervals.

 

[JupiterJoe]

It did help.  Thank you so much for all your guidance with regard to the Virpil Controls. 

Is your profile image a reference to Frank Zappa?  Very cool.

[imacken]

It is indeed FZ. Well spotted!

[lesthegrngo]

Hi all, a question for all the Mongoos T-50CM2 owners - is the threaded part that attaches to the grip a metal part? In the pictures it is black, like the TM Warthog base, which has a plastic thread

Cheers

Les

[Chops]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:50 AM, lesthegrngo said:

Hi all, a question for all the Mongoos T-50CM2 owners - is the threaded part that attaches to the grip a metal part? In the pictures it is black, like the TM Warthog base, which has a plastic thread

Cheers

Les

I have the T-50CM3 Base and the threaded connectors for the grip are metal.

[Chops]

I would like to bind the control button shown in the attached picture of the Constellation Alpha Prime grip, to be used as a view button in DCS when flying in 2D (monitor only).  My old CH Products Fighter Stick had a hat switch that I used for this function and DCS actually mapped it automatically.  I could use the switch to look up, down, left, right and all points in between very easily.  My old Fighter Stick had more functionality than this Alpha Prime.

I have read the manual for the Alpha Prime, however, it does not describe the names of the buttons on the stick or how to map buttons in a situation such as this.

DCS doesn't seem to recognize this button when I try to map it to view controls.   I also tried to map an axis to button within the Virpil Software but was not successful.

Any ideas on how I can use this button as a view control?

[lesthegrngo]

5 hours ago, Chops said:

I have the T-50CM3 Base and the threaded connectors for the grip are metal.

Thanks!

Les

[imacken]

9 hours ago, Chops said:

I would like to bind the control button shown in the attached picture of the Constellation Alpha Prime grip, to be used as a view button in DCS when flying in 2D (monitor only).  My old CH Products Fighter Stick had a hat switch that I used for this function and DCS actually mapped it automatically.  I could use the switch to look up, down, left, right and all points in between very easily.  My old Fighter Stick had more functionality than this Alpha Prime.

I have read the manual for the Alpha Prime, however, it does not describe the names of the buttons on the stick or how to map buttons in a situation such as this.

DCS doesn't seem to recognize this button when I try to map it to view controls.   I also tried to map an axis to button within the Virpil Software but was not successful.

Any ideas on how I can use this button as a view control?

 

You will have to define axis to buttons for this. I do the same. See the attached for how mine are set up. You then have to add logical buttons to these in the button tab.

[Chops]

@imacken"You will have to define axis to buttons for this. I do the same. See the attached for how mine are set up. You then have to add logical buttons to these in the button tab."

That worked perfectly.  Thanks for the help!