VR Motion sickness GPU upgrade

[Chad Vader]

Hi,

I was wondering if the learned community here could assist with a conundrum I'm having.

Basically, I get motion sickness really bad in VR.  Im doing all the usual suggestions, fans, pills, ease myself in etc but  I wanted to do all I can on the system front as well.

Ive attached my system spec, the only difference is I have a RTX 3070 now and 64GB RAM.

I get about 32 FPS in VR in the DCS counter.  Ive tried with the new MT binary as well, but I don't see any tangible difference and i was getting some CTD's.  

Resource monitor reveals my CPU is fine, but my GPU is pegged at 100%.  But DCS FPS overlay states im CPU bound+GPU bound.  But im thinking because im GPU bound my CPU isnt able to take on some of the workoad it normally could.

(from another thread)

Me before MT:

CPU max perf:

xxxx

GPU max perf:

xxx

Total perf:

xxx

 

After MT:

CPU max perf:

xxxxxxxxxx

GPU max perf:

xxx

Total perf:

xxx

 

If I got a new GPU

CPU max perf:

xxxxxxxxxx

GPU max perf:

xxxxxxxxxx

Total perf:

xxxxxxxxxx

So, I was thinking of upgrading to a 4070TI, but im reading here on the forums that its not ideal for VR due to the 192 bus and 12GB VRAM and should go for a 4080 instead.  Obviously this is an expensive card so I want to be sure its going to give me the ability to

a) get the smooth buttery frames to stop any micro stutters which may potentially giving me sickness

b) Allow me to use 90hz on my quest to potentially reduce motion sickness.

What do you guys and gals think?

Edited March 15, 2023 by Chad Vader

[Dragon1-1]

Did you consider a 3090? You can get it used, and it's in the same performance ballpark as a 4070ti, but at the same time has more than enough VRAM. If you've got the power and space to for it (it's a might big, hot-running card), it might be both cheaper and more effective than a 4070ti. The 3060 is a little low for smooth VR.

That said, some people just react that way. Try cutting down on resolution and putting your settings at lowest, see if it doesn't make you sick. It'll look ugly, but might help. Then you'll know if it's better to invest in a better GPU or a big flat screen.

[Chad Vader]

8 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Did you consider a 3090? You can get it used, and it's in the same performance ballpark as a 4070ti, but at the same time has more than enough VRAM. If you've got the power and space to for it (it's a might big, hot-running card), it might be both cheaper and more effective than a 4070ti. The 3060 is a little low for smooth VR.

That said, some people just react that way. Try cutting down on resolution and putting your settings at lowest, see if it doesn't make you sick. It'll look ugly, but might help. Then you'll know if it's better to invest in a better GPU or a big flat screen.

I have a 3070 now.  I did consider that but I really don't want to buy a refurbished card, given that a lot of them were used for mining etc.

Ive done all I can settings wise and still reacting badly.  Trying to do what I can on the hardware front now.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Chad Vader

[Dragon1-1]

Do you get that in other VR games, or walking around Oculus home? I'm just suggesting verifying whether it's hardware or wetware problem. Some people get VR sick regardless of FPS.

A lot of 3090s were used in mining, yes, but the one that just came up on "for sale" forum from a gaming PC. Swapped out for a 4090, as many people who always need the latest greatest thing are doing now. I think you can find those easily enough. People often specifically mention it if a card wasn't used for mining, as that is a concern for many buyers.

[Chad Vader]

Yea good point, im ok ish with games native to the quest but most of them are not free locomotion games or flight sims, just standing still or room scale.

VTOL VR is the worst... DCS is ok in fixed wing but helos make me vom instantly.

[BitMaster]

Tbh, I suffered the same sickness and it got worse over time, not better.

i finally gave up VR for now.

[Dragon1-1]

3 hours ago, Chad Vader said:

VTOL VR is the worst... DCS is ok in fixed wing but helos make me vom instantly.

VTOL VR is specifically designed for VR, and while I don't have it, it looks like it should get good FPS. This looks like it goes beyond FPS. You can get better performance, of course, that's always nice, but it may do nothing to solve the sickness problem. Given the costs involved, and that it's not really worth it if you're going to go back to the screen, it'd be best to make sure your brain can tolerate flying in VR at all.

Also remember, aircraft make some people vomit IRL, too. Realism, you could say, at some point the immersion is such that we're starting to get similar physiological symptoms (and for similar reasons, too, in both cases there's a disconnect between our sense of balance and what our eyes are telling us). That's just how it is, for some it gets better with time, for some it doesn't, and it can get worse. 

[Chad Vader]

43 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

VTOL VR is specifically designed for VR, and while I don't have it, it looks like it should get good FPS. This looks like it goes beyond FPS. You can get better performance, of course, that's always nice, but it may do nothing to solve the sickness problem. Given the costs involved, and that it's not really worth it if you're going to go back to the screen, it'd be best to make sure your brain can tolerate flying in VR at all.

Also remember, aircraft make some people vomit IRL, too. Realism, you could say, at some point the immersion is such that we're starting to get similar physiological symptoms (and for similar reasons, too, in both cases there's a disconnect between our sense of balance and what our eyes are telling us). That's just how it is, for some it gets better with time, for some it doesn't, and it can get worse. 

Yea I understand, I dont want to give up though.  THe funny thing is, I dont get motion sick in real planes, ships, cars, at all.

3 hours ago, BitMaster said:

Tbh, I suffered the same sickness and it got worse over time, not better.

i finally gave up VR for now.

Its annoying isnt it!  Do you get motion sick in other activities?  Do you have any vestibular issues or eyesight problems?

[Eugel]

Well there are different reasons for motion sickness in VR.

One happens when you don´t get enough FPS, so a stuttering picture is pretty much enhanced when it´s so close in front of your eyes.
This of course can be countered with stronger hardware.
Do you run your Quest at less than 90Hz ? It´s also very subjective, but for example I can´t stand the flickering of 60Hz.

The other one is more tricky, and that comes when your sense of balance gives your brain opposite input from your eyes. That´s why you don´t get motion sickness in real planes: Your body is moving and in line with what you see. And that´s also why most people don´t have problems with roomscale VR (games like beat saber etc.)
Your brain gets confused when the receptors in your ear tell your brain you are sitting still, while your eyes tell it you´re going circles at 500 knots. The natural response is that the brain thinks you´re poisoned and that´s where the sickness comes from.
The good news is that many people can train this away.

For me it was worse in racing simulations than in aircraft. And even less in Elite Dangerous, which was more or less my first VR game. I could do spirals in space without any problem, but in racing simulations I almost threw up in every corner. I think it´s because you are much closer to the ground and have a clearer reference, which could also explain why it´s worse in helicopters for you.
But after a couple of months that was almost completely gone for me.

[BitMaster]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Chad Vader:

Yea I understand, I dont want to give up though.  THe funny thing is, I dont get motion sick in real planes, ships, cars, at all.

Its annoying isnt it!  Do you get motion sick in other activities?  Do you have any vestibular issues or eyesight problems?

No, I don't. 

First time I noticed that I am affected by 3D graphics causing nausea was way back with the original Wolfenstein. I just watched a friend playing it and got sooo sick, for hours.

I then realized, 3D Ego Shooters are not for me..until BF1942 came out. That I played for years with no problems. I guess better graphics and fluent gameplay make it acceptable.

After BF1942 I forgot about it, that's already over a decade ago, until I got that Rift thing and couldnt use it. In the end I gave it to my buddy for his kids...they loved it.

 

Maybe when those things have fully matured I try it again. It was awesome, no doubt. It's a totally different sim in VR.

 

I may add:  I don't have any problems flying, 3D-Acrobatics ( did that when I was younger on the passenger seat ), can live on a boat ( half swedish, that's my genes there ), have a very good feeling for balance and timing, maybe that's why my brains thinks I get fooled.

The reason why this happens is a little different to Eugel's explanation to what I got told, maybe both are valid..I am no doctor by the end of the day. It says that your brain's fault tolerance "App" can only take so much garbage ( the wrong signals from your eyes saying " we are spinning downwards !!!" and  your ears saying "No, you sit still you fool, you ain't moving at all!!" After a too high dose of that bad input you would eventually fall into an epileptic seizure, that's when your brain goes tilt, shuts off, and the spinal cord takes over your vital functions. So the trip wire is the brain not tolerating too much bad input. Acting ( likely ) first with nausea..and if you don't stop that bad influence you would finally end in an epileptic seizure. BTW, Page #1 in every Game booklet and Readme.pdf by law iirc.

It's said that you could possibly force anybody into such a seizure if you force them audio-visual input that overloads the brain. Think that was also tested by some of the 3 letter agencies.

Edited March 15, 2023 by BitMaster

[Lange_666]

I would def get a card with over 12GB of VRAM, my 3080Ti is always maxed out in VR (low res Rift-S), even in 2D on the more demanding maps like Syria or Marianas it reached 12GB easely even with almost no units moving around.
Also, i have never been able to run DCS in VR stutter free when it's not on it's native display frequency or halved (by ASW). The slightest fluctuation in FPS always result in stuttering or rowing boat effect.  So if mine would run at 32 FPS, i would switch back to 2D (my Rift-S runs 80Hz or 40 in ASW, but i always run DCS at 40 to keep the overhead to prevent stuttering).

Edited March 15, 2023 by Lange_666

[Brzi_Joe]

32fps is too low for me, and I am vr veteran. I can tolerate such low fps only in boring civil flight in msfs2020. 

What are your settings? Some people have problems with tracking (mostly because of shinny surfaces around player, or some led lights programs in pc casing interfere with tracking), some with HAGS (google it), or maybe you have "motion blur on" what is apparently broken in multithreaded DCS. Are you using OpenXR toolkit and upscaling? You should. Did you searched for best settings for yours VR goggles and pc? 

I  have different devices from you, but there are sure players which can better help you.

[diego999]

Have you tried lowering DCS settings? Your machine should be able to pull at least 45 real fps (90 with motion reprojection). That's how I play with my pc which is less capable than yours.

72fps (36 real) is barely tolerable in the Quest 2 for me. 90/45 is much better and less likely to induce motion sickness. No wonder you're suffering throw up fest with just 32.

[Chad Vader]

Just to update this thread.

I received a 4070Ti and its done absolute wonders for my FPS

I can now run 4k pancake with high settings on 90-100 fps and my VR is running at 50-70 fps at 90HZ on my quest.

I did still get motion sick but it was noticeably less.  I think FPS and refresh rate is a major contributor here.. im still fighting the fight but hopefully this will make it easier in the long run.

Thanks to all that chimed in!

Edited March 16, 2023 by Chad Vader