Speed limit?

[VVanks]

In every flight sim I've ever played, there seems to be a speed limit to the airplanes. Falcon 4.0 seems to have it at 1000 (I might be mistaken, I've only played that game once), in Nova logic's F-22 it's 800km/h, Jane's USAF 800km/h.

 

In Lo-mac, I can't seem to get any faster than ~1200-1400 km/h (is it even km/h?) Thus my plane's speed limit seems to be Mach 1. Whereas I see in nearlly every flight textbook that the Su27, F-15 and Mig29 are Mach 2 capable planes. Mig 25's are mach 3 capable planes, yet I've never seen them go that fast in the game yet.

 

So, am I doing somethig wrong or is this game programmed like that?

 

EDIT: Yes, I use full afterburners at low altitude and high altitude, limit varies around 1200-1400, never got anywhere near 2000

[EscCtrl]

A speed limit of Mach 1? are you using afterburners?

[aceflier]

Wierd Wanks, I've had the f15 at mach2.3 sure your throttle is working properly?

[gherring]

Is this 1200 - 1400 IAS? This is Mach 1 at low altitude only. At high altitude, Mach is a much lower speed IAS (and I think TAS as well) so this would be Mach 2.5 at very high altitudes.

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

Look at the machmeter. I got the Su-27 to slightly above mach 2.5, and F-15C to 2.334

[Force_Feedback]

Look at the machmeter. I got the Su-27 to slightly above mach 2.5, and F-15C to 2.334

 

Your post reminds me of the "Arrow" movie. (about that Canadian fighter jet). Oh, that movie was cool, I can't remember the plot, but it was cool, oh, and I'm slightly drunk too :P

 

In the 1.1 demo, I got the f-16 up to M=2.2, at sea level 8) Maybe we can reach Warp 2.5 in lomac 1.2 :)

[jeroen79]

The speed of sound changes as airpressure decreases.

 

And there is a difference between indicated airspeed and true airspeed.

This difference will increase as airpressure decreases.

 

If your airspeedindicator says you're doing 1200 kmh and you are very high then you could be doing 1800 kmh or more.

 

And be sceptical when you read somewhere that plane X did mach Y.

Under what circumstances did it do that?

Was it a standard aircraft or a special version stripped of anything unnecessary?

Is it normal operational practice to go that fast or did they destroy a set of engines to get a record?

And what sort of flightprofile was used?

M1.0 on the deck is more impressive than M1.5 at 30000ft.

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

Look at the machmeter. I got the Su-27 to slightly above mach 2.5, and F-15C to 2.334

 

Your post reminds me of the "Arrow" movie. (about that Canadian fighter jet). Oh, that movie was cool, I can't remember the plot, but it was cool, oh, and I'm slightly drunk too :P

 

In the 1.1 demo, I got the f-16 up to M=2.2, at sea level 8) Maybe we can reach Warp 2.5 in lomac 1.2 :)

 

I'm not talking about the demo. :roll:

[S77th-GOYA]

In the modded demo, Betty has told me that my 15 was going too fast. That's a new one. It was in a dive at roughly 10k feet.

[schimmel]

The speed of sound doesn't change with the pressure but only with the temperature! At 20°C it is 1236 km/h whereas at -50°C it is 1078 km/h. That doesn't seem too much of a difference. So it must have something to do with the instruments.

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sound.html

 

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/atmosmet.html

[D-Scythe]

I got the Su-27 to slightly above mach 2.5, and F-15C to 2.334

 

There's no way a Su-27 should top Mach 2.5 without extensive structural damage. Unless you were in a dive, there's something wrong with the FM in Lock On.

 

I got to Mach 2.35 in the F-15 (~35 000 ft, clean), which is reasonable. With pylons and gun, don't expect the F-15 to reach its advertised Mach 2.5 top speed. Practically speaking, an F-15 could not sustain any speed for a significant period of time above Mach 2.3 without damaging the airframe.

 

The fastest I've seen any AI jet in Lock On go is 1400-1500 kmph, either an F-15 or a MiG-31. The Foxhounds and Foxbats evidently do not use their speed ot their advantage.

 

The speed of sound doesn't change with the pressure but only with the temperature! At 20°C it is 1236 km/h whereas at -50°C it is 1078 km/h. That doesn't seem too much of a difference. So it must have something to do with the instruments.

 

Wrong. Oversimplying things hugely, the speed of sound is heavily dependent on the density of the medium it's travelling in. At lower altitudes, the speed of sound is faster than at higher altitudes; likewise, the speed of sound in water is FAR faster than the speed of sound in air.

[GGTharos]

I don't think that's entirely accurate, D-Scythe ... the probem occurs at low altitudes, not high altitudes .. specifically ebcause the friction heats up some heat-sensitive parts too much (ie. the canopy) above certain speed, and they collapse.

 

At high altitudes you don't suffer these problems. Also keep in mind that the jump between tolerable and intolerable friction can be very small in terms of speed. Ie. you might be fine all day long running around at mach 2.5, but you'll break up at 2.6.

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

I got the Su-27 to slightly above mach 2.5, and F-15C to 2.334

 

There's no way a Su-27 should top Mach 2.5 without extensive structural damage. Unless you were in a dive, there's something wrong with the FM in Lock On.

 

No sh*t. :roll: The Su-27's maximum speed at high altitude has always been slightly higher than it should be. IIRC it reaches mach 2.4 with around 3 tons of fuel remaining.

[D-Scythe]

I know, but even still, IRL an F-15 cannot sustain speeds above M2.3 for any extended period of time without causing damage to itself. It *can* do M2.5 plus, but only with wing pylons stripped; plus it'll run itself out of fuel within a few minutes anyway with so much AB use. Most F-15 pilots never see anything over Mach 2.3 in their Mach meters.

 

Practically speeking, most jets can attain only ~70% of its advertised max speed in any combat configuration. For example, a fully loaded F-15 with 8 AAMs and a centreline fuel tank should only reach M1.7-1.9.

 

No sh*t. The Su-27's maximum speed at high altitude has always been slightly higher than it should be. IIRC it reaches mach 2.4 with around 3 tons of fuel remaining.

 

So how'd you do it in Lock On? :roll: If you did it straight and level, than its a bug.

 

With Lock On, even a clean Su-27, with its numerous weap pylons, shouldn't approach M2.35 (it's advertised top speed), let alone 'over M2.5.' If it does, than it is definitely a bug.

 

It makes me laugh sometimes. MiG and Flanker drivers keep moaning and whining that the F-15 is "overpowered," yet they turn a blind eye when their mounts hit speeds that only Foxbats and Foxhounds should see :roll: Ah, the hypocrisy...

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

No sh*t. The Su-27's maximum speed at high altitude has always been slightly higher than it should be. IIRC it reaches mach 2.4 with around 3 tons of fuel remaining.

 

So how'd you do it in Lock On? :roll: If you did it straight and level, than its a bug.

 

mach 2.4 with around 3 tons of fuel remaining. :roll:

 

I didn't say I was literally out of fuel when I got to mach 2.5, so I'll say it now. I was literally out of fuel. :wink:

 

It makes me laugh sometimes. MiG and Flanker drivers keep moaning and whining that the F-15 is "overpowered," yet they turn a blind eye when their mounts hit speeds that only Foxbats and Foxhounds should see :roll: Ah, the hypocrisy...

 

So an Su-27 going mach 2.5 nearly empty makes its drivers hypocrites :roll:

The only one turning a blind eye here is you. The Eagle IS overpowered. Ever seen it out turning the Su-27 at 500kph? I have. And I'm not the only one.

To prove myself right to the blind F-15 fanboys, I picked up the Eagle with 3 external fuel tanks against the guy that took the challenge. Guess what? At 550kph I was turning just as tight as him in the Flanker. Makes one wonder how tighter I could have turned without external tanks :roll: :roll: :roll:

[D-Scythe]

I didn't say I was literally out of fuel when I got to mach 2.5, so I'll say it now. I was literally out of fuel.

 

I don't want to get in an argument with you, but I'll say this: the Su-27 with weapon pylons (as it does in Lock On), even a clean one with magic fuel that is weightless, will *not* reach Mach 2.5. In fact, I doubt an absolutely clean Su-27, without weapon pylons, could even top Mach 2.4. Just because you said it CAN doesn't mean that it does ;)

 

If anything, the F-15C is *underpowered*; ED published a chart comparing the performance of Lock On's F-15C to the real thing. The real Eagle showed much better performance below Mach 1.2 than Lock On's F-15, where most forms of ACM take place. Here it is:

 

 

Oh, and BTW, if you are out-turning a Flanker in the F-15C with three full bags of gas, the other guy is a newb. ED even published a graph comparing the acceleration rates of the Su-27 and the F-15 on their website in Lock On. To prove that you are partial to the Crane and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, here's the chart (note that the Su-27 is clearly superior below ~700 kmph):

 

 

Hmm, I wonder how much more you want ED to tone the F-15's performance down for you to be satisfied :roll: Again, the hypocrisy amazes me.

 

Oh, I can do the rolleyes thingy too. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

@ GG:

 

Here's another chart published by ED comparing the max speed of the F-15 in Lock On compared to the real thing. Note that the flight envelope abruptly cuts off at ~M2.3. It's the structural speed limit of the airframe - the F/A-22 flight envelope is much the same, but the cut off is at M2.0 because its RAM cannot take speeds above that. As I said, a clean F-15 can easily do M2.5, but not for more than a couple minutes, and in practice, the speed limit is M2.3.

 

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

I didn't say I was literally out of fuel when I got to mach 2.5, so I'll say it now. I was literally out of fuel.

 

I don't want to get in an argument with you, but I'll say this: the Su-27 with weapon pylons (as it does in Lock On), even a clean one with magic fuel that is weightless, will *not* reach Mach 2.5. In fact, I doubt an absolutely clean Su-27, without weapon pylons, could even top Mach 2.4. Just because you said it CAN doesn't mean that it does ;)

 

:lol: Want a screenie?

 

Oh, and BTW, if you are out-turning a Flanker in the F-15C with three full bags of gas, the other guy is a newb. ED even published a graph comparing the acceleration rates of the Su-27 and the F-15 on their website in Lock On. To prove that you are partial to the Crane and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, here's the chart (note that the Su-27 is clearly superior below ~700 kmph):

 

Goodknight? Is that you? :axe:

 

"note that the Su-27 is clearly superior below ~700 kmph"

 

This one gave me a good laugh. The Eagle beats the Flanker above 600kph, that's a fact.

[D-Scythe]

Want a screenie?

 

No, I don't want a screenie. If Lock On's Crane can do M2.5, then it's a bug, a flaw in Lock On's flight model.

 

"note that the Su-27 is clearly superior below ~700 kmph"

 

This one gave me a good laugh. The Eagle beats the Flanker above 600kph, that's a fact.

 

You are joking, right? Do I have to explain to you how to read a simple line graph?

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

You are joking, right? Do I have to explain to you how to read a simple line graph?

 

Do I have to explain to you the graphic is FAR from reflecting the aircrafts' performance in the game?

Have jetfire and TBone in Su-27 and F-15C, respectively, and tell them to turn at 550kph for a couple minutes, and then at 600kph. When you find the same results I mentioned, you come back here to tell me I was right. :roll:

[GGTharos]

There's a bug that allowes this AFAIK and it has little to with the FM - it's a bug, not an fm issue last I heard. HAs t do with something else entirely.

Flanker pilots can use it too.

[VVanks]

Thanks for your replies, and yes, I have go much faster than 1200 now. It's all in the mach meter!