How I dream of Combined Arms

[Devil 505]

Over the years (41 of them) I have played just about every "Milsim" out there.  Before someone brings it up, yes for the love of Christ I and everyone else have played Armed Assault through its current state. I will go even further back and say I started with Operation Flashpoint, the Father of Armed Assault. In the old days, those titles laid the foundation for the future of open warfare sims, except no one really ran with it, at least on a scale of realism that we see in DCS World.  This is where I feel DCS World has started the foundation of what could be the best "Digital Combat Simulator" the market has ever see.  

I strongly believe the ground warfare in DCS World needs just as much attention from 3rd party devs and ED as the air modules do.  I know I am opening Pandora's Box saying this and what will follow will be stones from the crowd, but to me its worth keeping this convo alive. I feel there is a stronger crowd out there looking for the level of detail in armored modules and first person combat than the community feels would be interested.

Coming from a military and law enforcement background, the one thing I hate about modern shooters and ground simulation is their lack of authenticity and attention to detail that brings us right back to those assets. There are a couple shooters that are currently doing a decent job (not ARMA) at providing the experience of CQC/CQB for Law Enforcement and some military, but most are just fast paced confined shooters focused on the crowds who have no interest in tactics or realism.  We have already observed numerous former and current fighter pilots migrating to DCS because of its realism.  I know the crowd is just as big for guys who spent their career's on the ground clearing mud huts, buildings, hooches, and everything else a third world country can throw at you.  There are plenty of Tank crew members waiting for a Steel Beast predecessor to arrive.  

I think it is unrealistic to say DCS World should have every building and city detailed to the level of modern day first person shooters, it is to much clearly for a system to handle. But an approach I feel would be more feasible would be that of playable asset packs focused on a specific times and regions for those specific units.  Example when I was in the Navy, Naval Special Warfare (SEALS) where rolling with MK18 Mod 0's with Eotech's, huge PEQ-2's, big sure fire lights mounted up front, modified ACOGs with Doctor sights mounted on top ect.. Old School Sig-226's (non tac) versions being used as side arms with modified sure fire lights on them. Then we were fighting the Taliban at the time, not ISIS.  The equipment being modeled accurately to reflect those times would be very rewarding for players looking for that level of detail in a milsim.  Since the early 2000's to present day, things have changed with firearms, evolving and getting better.  This provides more area for growth with combined arms.

So why not have early 2000's SEALS, SF, Taliban assets packs. Within those packs weapons, gear, and uniforms specific to that time and region they operated in. Along with those packs, a set of 3D buildings that could be placed anywhere on the map in the editor or by campaign makers to utilize for missions. Separate building asset packs could also be made for different maps to conduct different operations in.  Hostage rescue, eliminating key targets, intel gathering ect.... Oil rigs or ships that could be boarded, all separate asset packs.  Building packs specific to maps and regions those units operated in.

I know the first thing people will say is that is a lot of money and no one would by them.  I disagree, we all have a desire to make DCS a living breathing battlefield to the highest level of authenticity. That is the glorious thing about DCS, everything is modular and no one is forcing you to buy anything. I long for the day we can hop in and out of the Huey, or later jump from the back of the C-130, or fast rope from the upcoming Chinook.  I do not need a living breathing town, just a few building I can place on the ground that are detailed and allow for realistic operations to be run. I feel this would attract a larger crowd than is given credit for. 

Below I drew up a mock scenario dropping off a SWAT unit on the Marians Map at night. I shot the video in DCS and then ran through a Mission in Ready or Not (one of the good shooters out there). If this was a seamless transitions from start to finish, DCS Combined Arms would take over the MilSim scene.  This is the way ED! You incorporate first person and armored modules, and watch the sim grow like you would not believe. 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Devil 505

[Apocalypse31]

My VU does this exact thing frequently-

-DCS Air Assault into Ready or Not raid

-DCS Air Assault into Ground Branch VBSS clearance. 

-DCS Air Strikes combined with Steel Beasts (tank attack) and combined with Easy Red II Infantry Assaults....all tied together....separately. 

-Steel Beasts (Tank attack) combined with ARMA (Infantry Assault)

-ARMA Recon (locate/destroy SA-19) into DCS Air Assault into Easy Red II Infantry attack. 

 

We've even started using Ghost Recon and ARMA Dynamic Recon OPS in between sessions to run 'recon' to help us flow our campaign missions together with information/intel and recon objectives that have cause/effect on future missions. 

 

The perfect game will never exist, so we might as well link the ones that work 'good enough' together. 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Apocalypse31

[Silver_Dragon]

Great descrption, has a dream Will expected see someday into DCS

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Dangerzone]

On 4/8/2023 at 2:08 PM, Devil 505 said:

I know I am opening Pandora's Box saying this and what will follow will be stones from the crowd, but to me its worth keeping this convo alive. I feel there is a stronger crowd out there looking for the level of detail in armored modules and first person combat than the community feels would be interested.

On the contrary - as someone who doesn't really use combined arms myself - I love being online when the opposition has players using combined arms. The difference going after ground forces controlled by players vs AI is a whole new level of experience. The more people that could be attracted to using combined arms in a multiplayer environment for more people to share these kinds of experiences the better, so you have my support. 

The main concern I have with your dream is the asset packs. CA works because only players needing combined arms need purchase. The rest of the players online don't need. However once you get into asset packs (like the WW2 asset pack) - this starts excluding many players from even being able to access to the server which can be counter-productive.

If the asset packs were such that the units were visible to all, and could be added in the mission editor (or script of course), but only controllable by players - this could work. A bit like our aircraft. People could buy an Abrams, or Sam site, etc like they buy a FA18 module - and 'jump in it' like they do aircraft. The only difference is it would be great if they could populate pre-existing AI units and take over (like they currently can with combined arms) - but have that full fidelity control of the unit.

[Devil 505]

20 hours ago, Apocalypse31 said:

My VU does this exact thing frequently-

-DCS Air Assault into Ready or Not raid

-DCS Air Assault into Ground Branch VBSS clearance

I have to admit, I stole your thunder on this one! You inspired me to do this actually.  Been playing Ready or Not and Ground Branch for a while.  I would love to see something like Ground Branch implemented into DCS with the customization level and attention to detail they have achieved.  This would fit in perfect with DCS. 

I think the modular building system in the form of asset packs for first person combat would be the way to go or at least a good start.  That way environments and personnel are modular similar to the aircraft.  Make these assets time specific down to all gear and uniforms.  I plane on doing a longer post on this forum about that later.  There is so much potential for ground combat in DCS that is very functional and could be performance friendly. 

Thanks again for the inspiration! 

[Canadair]

is steel beast still requiring the stick to work?

And isn't easy red 2 only on world war 2?

[Apocalypse31]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:04 PM, Devil 505 said:

I have to admit, I stole your thunder on this one! You inspired me to do this actually.  Been playing Ready or Not and Ground Branch for a while.  I would love to see something like Ground Branch implemented into DCS with the customization level and attention to detail they have achieved.  This would fit in perfect with DCS. 

I think the modular building system in the form of asset packs for first person combat would be the way to go or at least a good start.  That way environments and personnel are modular similar to the aircraft.  Make these assets time specific down to all gear and uniforms.  I plane on doing a longer post on this forum about that later.  There is so much potential for ground combat in DCS that is very functional and could be performance friendly. 

Thanks again for the inspiration! 

Come play with us. 

https://discord.gg/kpnZUUFce7

On 4/13/2023 at 8:46 PM, Canadair said:

And isn't easy red 2 only on world war 2?

It is, but infantry combat is infantry combat, so we use it for wargaming resolution for infantry action. 

[Silver_Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Apocalypse31 said:

Come play with us. 

https://discord.gg/kpnZUUFce7

It is, but infantry combat is infantry combat, so we use it for wargaming resolution for infantry action. 

I go to take a look here

[Bashibazouk]

Like many, I've been a little disappointed in Combined Arms. Not so much with the vehicles etc, and the newer maps have fixed most of the immersion problems. But I bought the formal campaign, and for the life of me, I have no idea of how to play it. I've watched some videos and read up but maybe because I was never an operational level officer, I just don't get it. However, I just played one of the default missions I hadn't noticed before, Watch and Wait (requires WW2 assets) and boy, that's the sort of experience I've been looking for. I don't know how long this mission has been in the game but I'm glad I tried it. Yes, it's quite basic, and there's a lot of hand holding but that's just what I'm looking for to understand CA. It would be great as the first step into learning how the official bought campaign is meant to work. I'm going to go through the default missions again and see if there is anything in-betweenish.  This mission doesn't help with the operational stuff (pushing your platoons, CAS etc) and how to do that's still a huge mystery to me in DCS. I just don't know how that is supposed to work, setting tracks, ordering targets etc. It seems when I play the official campaign stuff, the units are doing their own thing unless I micromanage and a lot of it seems to be which AI sees the other AI first. And dammed if I can get the CAS to do anything other than fly around for a bit and land. This tactical-plus/operational level might be fun if there were something to explain the best way to do things, but I haven't found it yet. It might be me, but I do see plenty of complaints like mine.

But I didn't come on here to moan, I came to praise that one mission I just played. That tactical Wait and Watch recon mission is just the sort of thing I was hoping for with CA. I can't play multi for reasons I won't go into here, so maybe the AI is why my experience with CA has been less satisfying until now. But more missions like the one I just played would make me feel I hadn't wasted my money and ED hadn't wasted all that effort into creating the wonderful models and workmanlike control system (this is not a criticism, I quite like the simplified interface for driving and fighting the vehicles) that often seems a bit wasted. 

More missions like Wait and Watch and I'd spend a lot more time in CA!

 

EDIT - I just jumped back in. The other missions are the same as always. Where do I start? How is this played? Do I just jump in a vehicle? Which vehicle? How do I get the JTAC to order a strike? How can I be sure that the path I set is the best one without actually driving the terrain myself, the AI certainly doesn't seem to make tactical decisions to stop them getting nailed because they skyline themselves etc. Sigh. Never mind. I got overexcited by Wait and Watch but now my disappointment is back. The other stuff is just the same. Maybe I'm stupid, maybe I've missed the one or two key important passages in the documentation (I haven't read it all, it would be impossible for me to read all of the documentation for all the modules and maybe that's my fault for getting too many). But it would be nice to have some sort of guide or hand-hold about how to play the missions and campaigns with CA and in the shop.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Bashibazouk