PLAAF Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) Many of you probably know this youtuber called Enigma. He runs this DCS cold war server which is very popular. He said currently, in DCS, the Cold War period aircraft are the ones that are truly playable. I kind of agree with him. Because you have so many iconic planes to choose from, and for both sides too. Especially after the announcement of F-4E, J-8II and MiG-23MLA. More importantly, most, if not all of those weapons are retired. Therefore, we shouldn't have any problem obtaining information of those weapons. So, I am going to create wish-lists for Chinese cold war vehicles because if those vehicles were ever made into DCS, we would have a more realistic battle environment for the eastern part of the world. The Soviet was officially dissolved on the 26th of December 1991. Therefore, any weapons which did not make to the service will NOT be the focus of my wish lists. As I have mentioned before in a La-7 thread, the reason we need to add more vehicles is all about adding new pilot-environments interactions. Each interaction is a type of mission/experience we can enjoy. There are only a few types of mission or pilot-mission interaction. 1: Fighter-to-fighter action 2: Ground attack (We already have vehicles from other nations, so we need some Chinese ones to form the basic Chinese transports convoy in missions.) 3: Anti-air weapons (Use them to protect transports and other installations. They allow players who fly in opposition force to have more believable and challenging mission settings and create a safe zone for the friendlies to fall back to.) 4: Ground assault vehicles for Close Air Support Missions. (For the opposition ) 5: Some long-range artillery can be used as target for elimination or protection. The best if such artillery can seem clear from the sky when firing. Katyusha type of weapon would be the best. Just imagine you are tasked with protecting the arty. After some tough fighting, you don't even know if you have done the job, and all of a sudden, every rocket from the ground start to fire. That would be a sight to behold. This thread will be focused on the AAAs and SAMs only. I will gradually make wish-list for other vehicle types which contribute to other types of missions. OK, let’s start with the short-range ones. HN-5 series The original HN-5 was a licensed copy of the Soviet 9K32 Strela-2 man-portable SAM system with minor modifications. This variant entered the service in the 1970s. The Chinese military wasn’t completely satisfied with the performance of this missile, because it doesn’t have an all-aspect seeker. They started to develop a new variant right way. HN-5A: Initially, they were planning to send this to north Vietnam to support their war effort against the US. But by the time HN-5A enters the service, the war was just about to end. So it didn’t see any actions in the Vietnam War. The A variant has a new indigenous seeker that allows you to track and attack a jet from any aspect. It is a bit longer body and a new rocket motor for better range. The A variant is said to perform slightly better than the Soviet 9K32 Strela-2M. HN-5 HN-5A Length 1.423m 1.463m Operational Altitude 0.05-2.3km 0.05-2.5km Operational Range 0.5-4.2km 0.8-4.4km Warhead 0.5kg 0.6kg HN-5B A further improved variant over the A variant. Some sources claim that it is partially based on the Strela-3. The B variant entered the service of the PLA in the mid-1980s. \ Pakistan purchased the copyright of this weapon and is producing it domestically as Anza Mk1. HN-5C A further improved variant over the B variant. And it is designed to be vehicle mounted with an electro-optical fire control system. It entered mass production in 1986. HQ-5 The HN-5B missile was made using Western standards and renamed HQ-5. It has been exported to many nations. The list of the nation which purchased HQ-5 include: · Albania · Cambodia · Colombia · Ecuador · Pakistan · Iran · Philippine · Thailand · Turkey · Vietnam DK-9 SAM/AAA Integrated Air Defence System Also known as the 930 System is a tactical air defence system designed to provide tactical field air defence at the army or divisional level. It is the predecessor of the current DK-10 system. As the threats of modern attack aircraft and choppers grow, conventional AAA weapons are no longer capable of providing the AA cover the ground forces need on the battlefield, while SAMs, are too expensive to be deployed in vast quantities to cover every corner. One solution to this problem is to combine the two systems to form an integrated AA system. In a typical engagement, the SAM would be used to engage targets at a longer range, while the AAA is used to engage targets at short range and lower altitude. Additionally, by sharing the same target search radar and fire control system, the users do not have to deploy 2 separate systems, which would reduce the unit cost and simplify the crew training. The PLA began to deploy this system in a combined unit to provide improved AA capabilities in the mid-1980s. A typical DK-9 battalion includes: Battalion Company X 3 Battalion C3I post X1 IBIS searching radar X1 Electro-optical director X1 Company command post X1 Type 702 fire control unit X1 SAM launcher (4 missiles) X1 Twin-35mm or twin- 37mm AAA X2 Company command post X1 Type 702 fire control unit X1 SAM launcher (4 missiles) X1 Twin-35mm or twin- 37mm AAA X2 Company command post X1 Type 702 fire control unit X1 SAM launcher (4 missiles) X1 Twin-35mm or twin- 37mm AAA X2 Radar: Some source claims that the radar used is the Type 702 fire control radar. It is consistent with an X-band search radar, C-band search/tracking radar, a K-band tracking radar with TV/IR tracking system, IFF and various latest electro-optical technologies, thus guaranteeing superior multi-target engagement capability, accurate and longer range tracking capability against ultra-low level and small-RCS target, short system reaction time, good all-weather engagement capability, ECCM capability and LPI characteristic, quick system positioning and deployment capability, and excellent reliability as well. The X-Band search radar has a maximum detection range of 22 km for fighter aircraft and 9 km for cruise missiles. The C-Band search and tracking radar ad a maximum detection range of 32 km for fighter aircraft and 13 km for cruise missile, and tracking range of 32 km for fighter aircraft and 13 km for cruise missile. The Ka-Band tracking radar has a maximum range of 15 km for fighter aircraft and 6 km for cruise missile. Look! A picture of the radar control. This can be used for the Combined Arms module. Missile: The SAMs used in DK-9 is the PL-9D, the SAM version of the PL-9C air-to-air missile. The missile is capable of +/- 40 degrees off-boresight angles and uses an all-aspect cryogenic liquid nitrogen gas-cooled seeker head unit utilising proportional navigation guidance techniques. The missile delivers an 11.8kg HE warhead at a speed of Mach 2 to a maximum range of 5.5km and a max altitude of 5km. The standard configuration of the missile launcher is mounted on a 4-wheel cartridge, but it can also be carried by a wheeled armoured vehicle (6x6 WZ551). The missile is said to have a single-shot hit probability for a single missile launch at an approaching target is 90%. AAA: The system has 2 AAA options: the twin-35mm Type 90 or the twin-37mm JP-113, both of which are automatic systems that can operate in either radar, optical tracker or manual mode. Let’s start with the 35mm Type 90 AAA. It is a licensed copy of the Swiss Oerlikon GDF-2. It can be used as a part of the DK-9 system, or as a stand-alone AAA in conjunction with Type 902 radar. That’s my way of asking “please make the stand-alone version too. Type 902 radar for the AAA The PLA also developed a self-propelled version of the gun (please see the picture below). But they gave it up in favour of the Type 95 SPAAG. The JP-113 is the land version of Type 76 twin-37mm naval AAA. A complete DK-9 system includes up to 8 battalions, with 48 AAA guns and 24 SAM launchers to cover an air space of 3000 square kilometres and engage 45 airborne targets simultaneously. Type 74 Twin-37mm AAA This was one of the most prominent AAA in Chinese service. Back in the 1950s, China imported the Soviet M1939 single barrel 37mm AAA and produced it as Type 55. Since a single-barrel gun doesn’t have a firing rate adequate to fight modern high manoeuvrable jets, so in 1965, China developed a twin-barrelled version called the Type 65. Later, the experience in the Vietnam War showed that the manually operated AAA couldn’t turn fast enough to track fast jets of the Vietnam War era, so Type 74 was created by adding auto-motors to operate them. The crew can now also operate them using a remote control at a safe location (usually nearby since they still need to reload them). An electro-optical director plus a target-searching radar was also added to support the AAA. Type 65 Type 74 Gun elevation -10 to 85 degrees -15 to 87 degrees Rate of fire 320 rounds/min 360 rounds/min Range 8.5km Muzzle Velocity 866m/s Horizontal movement 360 degrees Type 87 Twin-25mm AAA The first AAA was designed by China, which did not use the Soviet cartridge. And after that, China never used Soviet cartridges ever again for AAA…. With the exception of the 14.5mm, but that’s smaller than 20mm, so technically, that’s a gun, not artillery. Therefore, I am not wrong . The Type 87 AAA is mounted on a two-wheel cartridge with 2 magazines, each carrying 40 rounds. It fires the WB041P HE rounds with tracers with a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute and a muzzle velocity of 1050m/s. The system is also fitted with a Type 86 IR tracking sight for night operation with a range of 7.5km. The gun elevation/depression is -10 to 90 degrees. They can be mounted on trucks. They can be mounted on Type 63 APCs They can be mounted on a Tieying Jeep. (Notice the missiles in the centre) Exported to Indonesia Now, let’s talk about the self-propelled AAAs. Type 63 A Type 65 gun on the hull of T-34-85. PRC supplied many of those to North Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Since we are getting F-4E, and there is a Vietnam map coming to DCS later, this will be a great addition to simulating the Vietnam War. However, this gun is not very effective against fast jets of the Vietnam War era. (see more detail above, in the Type 74 AAA section) Type 80 SPAAG This gun is mostly a copy of the Soviet ZSU-57-2, but with the following changes. Firstly, the hull is based on the Type 69-II MBT, not T-54/55, which provides it with better cross-country capabilities. It also has a Type 12150L engine with 580 horsepower instead T-54’s 520 hp. A new indigenous proximity fused round was also developed for better effectiveness. Compared to older SPAAG like the Type 63, its turning and elevations are operated by electrical motors instead manually. Type 88 The first radar equipped SPAAG designed by China. It uses an improved Type 74 AAA on a Type 79 MBT chassis. It has an effective range of 7.2km and an effective altitude of 4km. The elevation of this weapon is -5 to 85 degrees. The gun has a turning speed of 60 degrees per second. Now let’s move on to the tactical air defence HQ-61 The HongQi 61 (HQ-61) is a short-range, low- to medium-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) developed by Shanghai-based 2nd Mechanical-Electronic Bureau (now Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology, SAST). The missile was initially developed as a ship-based air defence missile, with a land-based variant HongQi 61A being developed at a later stage. The HongQi 61A is the first Chinese SAM to be developed especially for ground forces to provide tactical air defence. Because the HongQi 2 SAM was designed to intercept medium- to high-altitude targets, the PLA required a low-/medium-altitude air defence missile in the early 1960s to provide air protection for its ground forces against low-flying aircraft. The missile development was initially carried out by the Beijing-based 2nd Space Academy (now China Academy of Defence Technology) in 1965 under the designation HongQi 41. In 1967 the development was taken over by the Shanghai-based 2nd Mechanical-Electronic Bureau, and the missile was renamed HongQi 61. Initially, the missile was developed with both land-based and shipborne uses in mind, but a decision was then made that the shipborne (naval) variant should be given higher priority. (I will talk about it in the future navy thread) The shipborne variant HongQi 61 was not successful until late 1986 (I will talk more about it in a future Navy thread). The development of the land-based HongQi 61A began in 1976. The associated ground guidance station, electro-optical director, and fire-control vehicle were developed at the same time. The HongQi 61A passed its certification tests in 1986 and the missile’s design certificate was issued in 1988 prior to production commencing. The air defence brigade subordinate to PLA 38th Group Army in the Beijing Military Region fields the HongQi 61A, HongQi 7, and Tor-M1 (SA-15) SAM, and 35mm AAA guns in amalgamation for field air defence roles. The HongQi 61A missile has four front canards mounted on the middle of the missile body and four larger delta-shape control surfaces at rear. The front canards and the rear control surfaces arrangement are not on the same geometric plane but on a 45-degree angle. The missile uses radio command and semi-active radar homing. A twin missile launcher is mounted on a YanAn SX2150 flatbed 6X6 truck with an azimuth range of 360°. The truck is equipped with four hydraulically operated stabilisers which are lowered in preparation for the missile launch。 A typical HongQi 61A battery (company) consists of 4 trucks, each with two ready-to-launch missiles, mobile generators, command post vehicle, a tracking and illuminating radar vehicle, a target indicating radar vehicle, and 24 spare missiles. The C-band radar system called Type 571 had two elliptic parabolic net-type reflectors. Other features include moving target indication and frequency hopping agility. A typical target engagement would take place as follows: The target is first detected by target indication and radar vehicle. After being confirmed as hostile, the target is tracked and illuminated by the tracking and illuminating radar vehicle. When the target is within range, one missile is launched. The Type 571 radar has been designed specifically for low-altitude warning and displays both the slant range and azimuth of aircraft targets detected. No details of the tracking and illuminating radar have been disclosed, although photographic imagery examined shows a dish-type antenna with a TV camera mounted coaxially to the right for use in an ECM environment or passive operations during clear weather engagements. Some source claims that this missile has a single-shot hit probability for a single missile launch is between 64% to 80%. Length 3.99m Diameter 0.286m Wingspan 1.166 Min Range 2.5km Max Range 10km Speed 3 Mach Operational Altitude 8km HQ-64 This is an HQ-61 upgraded with Aspide technology. The HongQi 64 was designed to engage low-/medium-altitude fast jet targets, low-flying helicopters, and sea-skimming anti-ship missiles. The missile is guided by the radio command with artificial interference capability. It claimed to be the only medium-low-altitude air defence missile in the world that used microprocessor intelligent module technology at the time of its introduction. The surveillance radar detects the target aircraft and then hands it over to the appropriate tracking/illumination radar unit for engagement. The system continuously waves semi-active homing guidance principles, and, with the allocated assets, the battery can process up to 40 targets, track 12 and engage three of them simultaneously. The use of the moving target tracking processing system and frequency agility technology also gives the system good anti-jamming capability. System reaction time is 9 seconds. A typical land-based HongQi 64 battery fire unit comprises one 4X4 truck-mounted surveillance radar, three 4X4 truck-mounted tracking/illumination radars, one emergency power supply vehicle, and six 6X6 truck-mounted transporter-launcher platforms. Each of the launch platforms has five ready-to-launch missiles in individual sealed containers. The fire unit is complemented by a technical support unit which comprises a transport and reloading vehicle, a test vehicle, an electronic maintenance vehicle, an electromechanical maintenance vehicle, a tools support vehicle, a spares and meter vehicle, and a power supply vehicle. HQ-64 Aspide HQ-7 Length 3.89m 3.7m 3m Diameter 0.208m 0.203m 0.156m Wingspan 0.68m 0.55m? Min altitude 0.03km 0.015km? 0.03km Max altitude 12km 11km 5km Min range 1km 1.3km 0.5km Max range 18km 15km 8.6km (400m/s target); 10km (300m/s target); 12km (helicopters) Speed 4 Mach 4 Mach? 2.3 Mach? Reaction time 9 sec Single shot hit probability 60 to 80% I honestly don't know when did this missile enter the service. Probably after the dissolution of the Soviet. But once again, probably not. However, I still wanted to list it here because this might be the only modern Chinese SAM we can get for a long time. Anything newer than this are highly classified. Things like HQ-12, HQ-16, HQ-9 etc., are just way too new. Even the HQ-9 is currently the working horse of the PLA. IMO, there is no way we can get enough data or permissions to make them in DCS anytime soon. HQ-64, however, though it is still in service, is at a stage in which it is getting its superannuation in order and looking to purchase a house in the countryside. HQ-2B This is probably the only Chinese long-range regional air defence system we can get in DCS. As I have mentioned earlier, the new ones are too new. In 1965 the PLA began to develop an improved SAM based on the HQ-1 (a direct copy of S-75). 2nd Space Academy (now China Academy of Defence Technology, CADT) was responsible for the general system design, with 139 Factory and 786 Factory in charge of missile and ground stations respectively. The main design targets were to improve the missile’s accuracy and resistance to enemy electronic jamming, as well as to increase the missile’s operational zone. The new SAM, which was designated HongQi 2, passed its certification test in 1966. Since then, the HongQi 2 has been produced in mass numbers for the PLA to protect China’s major cities, military bases, and industrial complexes. The PLA has also introduced a number of improved variants, including the HongQi 2A and HongQi 2B in the late 1970s and early 1980s. On 8 September 1967, the PLA air defence troops fired three SAM (two HongQi 2s and one HongQi 1) at a U-2 spy plane, and one of the HongQi 2 missiles hit the target despite the plane’s use of electronic jamming. The latest score of the HongQi 2 SAM took place on 5 October 1987, when the PLA air defence troops shot down a Vietnamese Air Force MiG-21R (Fishebed-H) reconnaissance plane using the HongQi 2 SAM near the China-Vietnamese border. In 1984, the PLA conducted a series of HongQi 2 tests against the Tuqiang-3 guided target missile. According to reports, the HongQi 2 and the Tuqiang-3 were launched approximately 100km apart and the HongQi 2 SAMs were fired in “salvo shots” of two to three missiles per Tuqiang-3. Four out of five target missiles were shot down. In more tests the following year, the HongQi 2 shot down seven out of eleven guided targets. In light of these two tests, the PLA expanded the HongQi 2’s role to include anti-missile functions. The HongQi 2 is a large two-stage missile designed to intercept high-altitude targets like strategic bombers and spy planes. Its radar guidance guarantees a single-shot hit probability of 68%, but according to the American's experience in the Vietnam War, this ratio drops sharply when the missile is used in a strong electronic jamming environment. The improved HongQi 2B is said to have much-improved capability against various active and passive jamming. The second stage of the HongQi 2 missile is a large liquid rocket, which makes it inconvenient to be maintained and transport. Each missile is carried by a semi-trailer towed by a 6x6 truck and needs to be loaded onto a fixed launcher before firing. The loading usually takes about 5 minutes, but this really depends on the training and experience of missile operators. The basic operational unit of the HongQi 2 SAM is a battalion, each including six fixed launchers, 18 spare missiles, early-warning radar, target illuminating radar (ground guidance station) and support units (command, power, communications, etc.) HQ-2A The modifications on the HongQi 2 SAM began in 1973 to enhance the missile's low altitude target engaging and electronic countermeasure capabilities based on the experience of the Vietnam War. The firing tests of the HongQi 2A were undertaken between 1978 and 1982, and the final design certification for batch production was issued in June 1984. The 144 modifications on the HongQi 2A include increasing the horizontal firing angle to ±75° from the original ±55°; increasing the speed to 1,200 m/s from the original 1,150 m/s; increasing the G limit; adding optical/TV guidance system and improving the missile's electronic countermeasure capability. HQ-2B The concept of HQ-2B was considered in 1978 as a further improvement on the HQ-2, and the design work officially began in 1979. The PLA requirements for the missile include improved electronic countermeasures capability, expanded operational zone, shortened preparation time, simplified and mobile launch equipment, and the ability to attack high-speed targets. Operational tests and design certification trials took place during 1980~1986, and the missile entered service with the PLA in the early 1990. HQ-2B firing Compared to the basic variant HQ-2, the HQ-2B features some fundamental improvements in its design. The main improvements include: Missile: Redesigned fragmental HE warhead and more powerful fuse for increased blast radius; New improved rocket motor for higher speed and expanded operational zone; Encrypted digital radio command guidance for better anti-jamming capability; New onboard power unit with much-reduced weight; Increased G limit; Ground station Computerised fire-control system to improve the missile’s accuracy and reliability; Extra high-frequency range-finding radar, electro-optical director and mono-pulse radar on the ground guidance station; Multiple guidance (radar, electro-optical) for higher resistance against active and passive jamming; Automated command and control (C2) system with a large display screen Launcher Self-propelled (tracked) launcher with self-adjustment capability and onboard power unit for increased mobility and reduced reaction time; Simplified ground support equipment; If necessary, the missile could also be launched from the older HQ-2 launcher. This is the Radar of the earlier variant. The Radar of the B variant HQ-2B is retired and was replaced by KS-1. So we shouldn't have any problem getting them in DCS. Phew finished. I have been writing this for a whole day. I bet I have missed some detail or made some mistakes in there since I am tired. If I spot them, I will add them later. Ciao. Going to sleep now. Enjoy the read. Edited September 23, 2023 by PLAAF 11 4 My Adorable Communist Errand Girls Led by me, the Communist Errand Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco2002 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 What a post, congrats on finding that info. +1 for more untis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bies Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 More Cold War assets would be great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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