A new love

[Gunfreak]

In a historically based scenario the M2000C would mostly be facing MiG21, some Su22, MiG23s etc. You'd be flying in 2 or 4 ships. And unlike both DCS AI and DCS multiplayer people. Once you've shot down 1 or 2 of the enemy formation they usually slinker away.

If you judge an aircraft's air to air capability based on DCS meta. You'll get a warped view of things. Of course more missiles are generally better but only up to a point. Fox 1s with good AWAC cover and good support systems are perfectly fine with dealing with the historically enemies of the 80s up to the mid 90s.

Norwegian F16s flew cap over the Balkans in 1999 with just Fox 2s.

[Mike_CK]

There is a reason why so much effort is going into the sidebays of the block 4 F-35 upgrade that allows it to carry 6 aim-120s instead of 4. If it wasn’t important, They wouldn’t be spending so much effort on it. Nor would they be using F-15EXs as missile trucks 

Yeah…CAP in peace time or with no expected enemy activity isn’t the same as headed into a fight against a modern capable airforce. Your flight of 4 May end up encountering an enemy flight of 4. If you only have 8 medium range missles between all of you and they have 16-20…you have a problem. Because they can afford to launch at a longer range and compel you to go defensive. 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mike_CK

[Bremspropeller]

In the 80s, REDFOR didn't have Fox 3s that they'd just throw at you to make you do things. Times have changed.

For the threat back in the day and it's mission, two Fox 1s was perfectly fine on the M2k.

[Velik]

One of the best flight experience. Really enjoing.

Chassis behavior, engine sounds. mechanization. All these things are so sweet to play with.

It still has a cheating turn rate and ability to dodge missiles easier than other types.

And the worst weapon systems. Even after several "revises"

You can carry a GBU but cannot guide it yourself. JTAC can help you but as usual infantry he uses FM radio ....and you don't have one lol. Special "french way" I guess.

And no vertical mark line. wtf.

CCIP CCRP for other weapon both completely useless due awful accuracy.  

Poor ballistics and fire rate for defa cannons. Even ancient GSh-23 is twice faster.

Only one type of  Matra rockets that useless for any old tank.

Mixing Super 530D with AG weapon is impossible because...just because.

You can carry 2xMK82 on doubled pylons under the wing but cannot carry GBU-12s on the same pylons.

From all possible 2000 models RAZbAM took the less playable.

 

[Schmidtfire]

Useless due to awful accuracy?

Mirage 2000C has hands down the MOST accurate CCRP delivery of all DCS modules. Just designate properly and your iron bombs will hit with jdam accuracy.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Schmidtfire

[Braunn]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:21 PM, Gunfreak said:

 

Norwegian F16s flew cap over the Balkans in 1999 with just Fox 2s.

They had AIM120's. But the F-16A they employed had IFF system limitations so they had to use different tactics. The pic shows one of the RNoAF F-16A leaving a KC135 during the Balkan war.

Sorry, just a Viper fan here. I get interested whenever people talk about RNoAF Vipers. lol

Looking hard at learning a second plane tho, and the M2000 is super interesting.  

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Braunn said:

They had AIM120's. But the F-16A they employed had IFF system limitations so they had to use different tactics. The pic shows one of the RNoAF F-16A leaving a KC135 during the Balkan war.

Sorry, just a Viper fan here. I get interested whenever people talk about RNoAF Vipers. lol

Looking hard at learning a second plane tho, and the M2000 is super interesting.  

Norway didn't send their MLU F16s to the Balkans, only their default Block 10 and 15s, so no ability to use AMRAAMS

 

Quote

Allied Force
Grazzanise AB, Italy, 1999
 

During operation 'Allied Force' in 1999, Norway participated with a number of F-16s stationed at Grazzanise AFB in Italy, together with F-16s from Denmark. Norwegian F-16s, just like the Danish aircraft, most of the time undertook CAP missions. The RNoAF didn't send their MLU F-16s over to Italy.

https://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article12.html

Norwegian Wikipedia concurs
 

Quote

Våren 1999 ble norske fly for første gang siden andre verdenskrig brukt i skarpe luftoperasjoner i Operation Allied Force i forbindelse med Kosovokrigen. De seks flyene fra 338 skvadron utførte luftpatruljering (combat air patrol), eskorte og jagersveip over Kosovo, og fløy over 2000 timer.^[5][6] Flyene var av en eldre modell (OCU) som hadde reduserte muligheter til å identifisere mål i mørke, og var begrenset til en ren luft-til-luft rolle.^[7]

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

[Braunn]

7 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Norway didn't send their MLU F16s to the Balkans, only their default Block 10 and 15s, so no ability to use AMRAAMS

 

https://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article12.html

Norwegian Wikipedia concurs
 

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

That picture I posted is literally from above former Yugoslavia 5th of May 1999. The tanker is a KC135R of the 22nd Air Refueling Wing, McConnell Air Force Base, Kansas. 

You don't send Fox 2 capable only Vipers to an international NATO Operation doing CAP, sweeps and escorts for over 7-8 hours per sortie when you have MLU aircrafts ready to go. The RNoAF MLU program started in 1995. 

But I get it, you want to be right. So you're right.  
 

[Gunfreak]

41 minutes ago, Braunn said:

That picture I posted is literally from above former Yugoslavia 5th of May 1999. The tanker is a KC135R of the 22nd Air Refueling Wing, McConnell Air Force Base, Kansas. 

You don't send Fox 2 capable only Vipers to an international NATO Operation doing CAP, sweeps and escorts for over 7-8 hours per sortie when you have MLU aircrafts ready to go. The RNoAF MLU program started in 1995. 

But I get it, you want to be right. So you're right.  
 

I don't want to be right.  But I've given you two written sources that state that Norwegian MLUs were not sent to Yugoslavia in 1999.

So either the two written sources are wrong and and the pictures text is right. Or it's the reverse. I simply state what those two sources say. It's perfectly possible they are wrong. But then we would need to know why they are wrong. What they originally got their info from. 

You picture is several places online (including the Norwegian wiki) and does state what you state. But there's still a conflict of sources. Including that the written sources say that Norwegian F16s in Kosovo in 1999 was not night capable. Something that hints at not being MLU upgraded. 

[Braunn]

It doesnt matter. Fact is tho, MLU program started 1995 and last delivery was fitted at Kjeller in 2000. Total of 56 F-16 airframes recieved the MLU between 1995 and 2000. F-16A Block 15 #674 was one of the newest airframes and it was sent to Balkan for Operation Allied Force, with 5 other RNoAF F-16s  in 1999. 

What do YOU think? Would you send Vipers that didn't have AMRAAM capabilities to war when you have several brand spanking new MLU fitted ones sitting in the hangar? 

There's no they here. It was one sentence on one website that claimed MLU upgraded F-16's didn't deploy to Balkan. I beg to differ. Could be wrong of course  but fighter pilot training aint cheap and I don't think any airforce or defence ministry would risk all that money go to waste by sending less capable airframes to war when they had capable airframes on active duty for the past 4 years.  Putting 2 and 2 together with that picture of 674 leaving a tanker from a refueling wing that also deployed to Balkan airspace in 1999, my brain says MLU Vipers were there. Now, here's the kicker: Maybe not ALL SIX were MLU fitted f-16s. Now that would be an ok tactic if wing leads had the AMRAAMs and wingmen didnt.