Orion 2 F18 base/stick disconnects randomly!

[PawlaczGMD]

21 hours ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

I just don't agree mate that a hotas malfunctions and solving it by spending an extra sum of money to get the thing to work is a good thing. Genuinely glad you have solved your own issues with it, really. But it's the principle, as far as I'm concerned. I shouldn't need a hub. It should work fine plugged directly into the motherboard, like all other hotas brands. That's my point.

 

You know what, it might be too early to tell, but their method might have worked for me. Are you sure you did it correctly?

You need to do it with winwing plugged in, otherwise it might not appear on the device list. Make sure you go over every entry in HID and USB devices, and turn off that sleep mode. 

[PluckyUnderdog]

On 4/13/2024 at 7:47 AM, PawlaczGMD said:

You know what, it might be too early to tell, but their method might have worked for me. Are you sure you did it correctly?

You need to do it with winwing plugged in, otherwise it might not appear on the device list. Make sure you go over every entry in HID and USB devices, and turn off that sleep mode. 

Well some of the HID controllers have the option to 'allow the computer to turn it off to save power' greyed out, but it's unticked, and the option is manually unticked on every one I can alter, and also all of the USB options. The issue happened again this evening, the stick disconnected.

 

I changed the power settings and did the device manager stuff with the hotas plugged directly into the PC, and into my 10W powered USB hub (initially thought it was 20W) just to make sure I wasn't missing any USB devices. I'm at the end of my tether tbh.

Edited April 17, 2024 by PluckyUnderdog

[PawlaczGMD]

44 minutes ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

Well some of the HID controllers have the option to 'allow the computer to turn it off to save power' greyed out, but it's unticked, and the option is manually unticked on every one I can alter, and also all of the USB options. The issue happened again this evening, the stick disconnected.

 

I changed the power settings and did the device manager stuff with the hotas plugged directly into the PC, and into my 10W powered USB hub (initially thought it was 20W) just to make sure I wasn't missing any USB devices. I'm at the end of my tether tbh.

 

I had one disconnect since messing with this, but I think the frequency has reduced. I also think it might matter where I plug it in on the PC. Since things point to this being the issue, I got a 40 W hub and will see if it cures it completely.

[PluckyUnderdog]

Just now, PawlaczGMD said:

I had one disconnect since messing with this, but I think the frequency has reduced. I also think it might matter where I plug it in on the PC. Since things point to this being the issue, I got a 40 W hub and will see if it cures it completely.

If you wouldn't mind, let me know how you get on. I may buy a 40 or 60W hub if it helps. I have until the 30th to escalate the case to PayPal formally, I am speaking to Winwing through the PayPal resolution centre at the mo.

[PawlaczGMD]

1 minute ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

If you wouldn't mind, let me know how you get on. I may buy a 40 or 60W hub if it helps. I have until the 30th to escalate the case to PayPal formally, I am speaking to Winwing through the PayPal resolution centre at the mo.

Yeah I can post the result, give me a week to see if it still happens properly.

I also have around a week left on paypal, but I don't think I will bother... I might try to milk WW for a coupon for my troubles and having to buy a hub.

[PluckyUnderdog]

31 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Yeah I can post the result, give me a week to see if it still happens properly.

I also have around a week left on paypal, but I don't think I will bother... I might try to milk WW for a coupon for my troubles and having to buy a hub.

Cheers dude.  

[Callsign JoNay]

On 4/13/2024 at 12:47 AM, PawlaczGMD said:

You know what, it might be too early to tell, but their method might have worked for me. Are you sure you did it correctly?

You need to do it with winwing plugged in, otherwise it might not appear on the device list. Make sure you go over every entry in HID and USB devices, and turn off that sleep mode. 

I have used that method as well following all the steps, disabling the sleep mode for all HID and USB devices, and it hasn't made any difference for me.

[MustangSally]

22 minutes ago, Callsign JoNay said:

I have used that method as well following all the steps, disabling the sleep mode for all HID and USB devices, and it hasn't made any difference for me.

Hub power?

[Callsign JoNay]

37 minutes ago, MustangSally said:

Hub power?

No, I was testing the winwing fix not whether or not a powered hub makes a difference.

[PawlaczGMD]

17 hours ago, MustangSally said:

Hub power?

 

On 4/17/2024 at 5:54 PM, PluckyUnderdog said:

Cheers dude.  

 

OK, so with one 40W USB hub, with both joystick and throttle plugged it, it still disconnected. So do I need 2 separate hubs? This is ridiculous. I will try one device in the hub, and one in the PC for now. I will open a dispute on paypal.

[Callsign JoNay]

I've owned my Orion 1 stick base since April 2022, so two years now. These constant disconnects have only been happening to me in the last 6 months or so, or a year tops. My product worked reliably for a long time before that. I wonder if one of the firmware updates have caused an issue, and if there is a way to rollback the firmware to circa 2022.

[PawlaczGMD]

5 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

I've owned my Orion 1 stick base since April 2022, so two years now. These constant disconnects have only been happening to me in the last 6 months or so, or a year tops. My product worked reliably for a long time before that. I wonder if one of the firmware updates have caused an issue, and if there is a way to rollback the firmware to circa 2022.

Interesting. I have owned them for about 6 months, so it makes sense that I had the disconnects from the start. Did you try to ask in a ticket?

[MustangSally]

As I said a good high powered hub resolved my Libra disconnection issues 2yrs ago. I now have 2 x Orion 2 bases (one for helo's the other for fixed wing) with absolutely no issues. In fact my Taurus, Top Gun MIP with ICP, PTO2/PCR, Gemini/KA50 and Orion pedals have no issues at all and they are all connected to 2 x 48w hubs

[PawlaczGMD]

6 minutes ago, MustangSally said:

As I said a good high powered hub resolved my Libra disconnection issues 2yrs ago. I now have 2 x Orion 2 bases (one for helo's the other for fixed wing) with absolutely no issues. In fact my Taurus, Top Gun MIP with ICP, PTO2/PCR, Gemini/KA50 and Orion pedals have no issues at all and they are all connected to 2 x 48w hubs

OK, but I also got a high quality hub, (Anker 36W, $40 USD), and it has not resolved my issue, and that's a fact.

[Callsign JoNay]

On 4/19/2024 at 5:23 PM, PawlaczGMD said:

Interesting. I have owned them for about 6 months, so it makes sense that I had the disconnects from the start. Did you try to ask in a ticket?

No, I can't be bothered to deal with their customer support. 

[PawlaczGMD]

2 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

No, I can't be bothered to deal with their customer support. 

Yeah, I get it... I started a case on paypal. I think I will ask for a partial refund and live with it. Maybe it will be fixed one day. I really can't be bothered with returning <profanity> to China and buying a new set right now...

[PawlaczGMD]

Update: Even with just the throttle plugged into my new powered hub, it still disconnected. 

[PluckyUnderdog]

It hasn't happened to me for the last 2 weeks now. I don't really get it haha. I've got until the 30th to escalate the case. I'll have a think about what I will do over the next day or two.

[PluckyUnderdog]

Update, it happened this evening. I'm escalating the case to paypal. I'm not confident they will solve it and I'm not dealing with their customer service as it's terrible. May not get anywhere but I have no other choice really. Will buy from another manufacturer when it comes time to, in future. Had enough.

[PawlaczGMD]

2 hours ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

Update, it happened this evening. I'm escalating the case to paypal. I'm not confident they will solve it and I'm not dealing with their customer service as it's terrible. May not get anywhere but I have no other choice really. Will buy from another manufacturer when it comes time to, in future. Had enough.

Yeah, I had no disconnects since I plugged the hub into a different usb port, but this is not reliable, I have no trust that the issue is gone forever. I will ask Paypal for a 50% refund and keep the items. The WW guy has responded to me in Paypal, but he just said they're trying to fix it. OK, but it has been 6 months and it's not fixed, so I will have to either get a refund or a definite fix by the Paypal deadline.

[Chief_Biv]

I should have followed this thread closer. I raised a ticket with Winwing. My issue has been occurring for the last 6 months or so. I have an Orion 1 F-18 HOTAS. I have only had the random disconnections with the Joystick and no problem with the throttle. In response to WW support I sent them a photograph of the USB plug on the base, and have swapped USB cables and ports. This includes plugging the joystick into unpowered hubs and into a powered PCIe USB card and directly into the Motherboard USB slots. Every one of my USB controllers has been checked to make sure Windows does not not remove power from any USB port on my PC. I note that a couple of users on this thread have followed advice, based on a fix for prior problem with a Libra, to connect the stick to a powered USB hub and this has not resolved the issue for the Orion 1/2 devices. Because the throttle device comes with more axis/buttons/LED lighting than the stick I would have thought that the throttle would be the device more likely to fail due to inadequate power supply. My throttle can connect anywhere and still work and therefore I doubt that the stick's problem is going to be resolved by a powered hub.

In the meantime Winwing asked that I disconnect the stick from its base and see if I can replicate the problem by just using the stick's x-y axis without the stick connected. Whilst I can see the base in the SimmApp software, registering movements without the stick connected, the whole stick was not visible to DCS and therefore I could not fly in DCS to see if I could replicate the proble. Is there a trick to ensuring that DCS recognises the base without the stick connected??

After failing to do be able to try and replicate the problem without the f-18 stick connected, Winwing then offered me a discount on a new Orion 2 base.  I am hesitant from doing as they suggest because I can see on this thread that customers with Orion 2 bases also suffer the same problem.

This problem is so random. Saturday I got a whole session in without it occurring. On Sunday it started happening quite frequently. It can even happen whilst I am in the middle of very light maneuvers like doing AAR behind a tanker. It can even happen whilst my hand is off the stick whilst in Autopilot. It lasts typically between 10 and twenty seconds before the stick reconnects again.  I get the Windows audio chime when it connects and disconnects. However, I have turned Hotplug USB devices back on in DCS control settings to ensure I get an additional on-screen message when it connects and disconnects in game.

I only really use the HOTAS with DCS. I downloaded Star Wars Squadrons from Steam for $2 and started playing it and got a disconnect whilst playing it too. I have not played that game since, but I think this confirms it's not necessarily a DCS issue. I suspect the problem will come down to:

• Loose wiring connections either in the base or within the stick - which is probably related to them instructing me to try and narrow this down to one or the other - Winwing issue;
• A faulty chip in the joystick upstream of the USB port - Winwing Issue
• A firmware fault - Winwing issue
• faulty motherboard (not likely given this problem only happens on this one device out of many attached to the PC (Throttle, pedals, external HDD, VR headset/headtracking, mouse and keyboard)
• Inadequate power (not likely given this problem only happens on this one device out of many attached to the PC (Throttle, pedals, external HDD, VR headset/headtracking, mouse and keyboard).

[PluckyUnderdog]

11 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Yeah, I had no disconnects since I plugged the hub into a different usb port, but this is not reliable, I have no trust that the issue is gone forever. I will ask Paypal for a 50% refund and keep the items. The WW guy has responded to me in Paypal, but he just said they're trying to fix it. OK, but it has been 6 months and it's not fixed, so I will have to either get a refund or a definite fix by the Paypal deadline.

Yeah they said that to me too, to give them 'more time'. No, sorry. This issue has been happening to people for a couple of years now, by the looks of it. And they show no sign of addressing it. So I've escalated it. I should've bit the bullet and paid a little more for Virpil stuff, in hindsight. But that's on me, I've learned my lesson the hard way.

[PawlaczGMD]

12 hours ago, Chief_Biv said:

I should have followed this thread closer. I raised a ticket with Winwing. My issue has been occurring for the last 6 months or so. I have an Orion 1 F-18 HOTAS. I have only had the random disconnections with the Joystick and no problem with the throttle. In response to WW support I sent them a photograph of the USB plug on the base, and have swapped USB cables and ports. This includes plugging the joystick into unpowered hubs and into a powered PCIe USB card and directly into the Motherboard USB slots. Every one of my USB controllers has been checked to make sure Windows does not not remove power from any USB port on my PC. I note that a couple of users on this thread have followed advice, based on a fix for prior problem with a Libra, to connect the stick to a powered USB hub and this has not resolved the issue for the Orion 1/2 devices. Because the throttle device comes with more axis/buttons/LED lighting than the stick I would have thought that the throttle would be the device more likely to fail due to inadequate power supply. My throttle can connect anywhere and still work and therefore I doubt that the stick's problem is going to be resolved by a powered hub.

In the meantime Winwing asked that I disconnect the stick from its base and see if I can replicate the problem by just using the stick's x-y axis without the stick connected. Whilst I can see the base in the SimmApp software, registering movements without the stick connected, the whole stick was not visible to DCS and therefore I could not fly in DCS to see if I could replicate the proble. Is there a trick to ensuring that DCS recognises the base without the stick connected??

After failing to do be able to try and replicate the problem without the f-18 stick connected, Winwing then offered me a discount on a new Orion 2 base.  I am hesitant from doing as they suggest because I can see on this thread that customers with Orion 2 bases also suffer the same problem.

This problem is so random. Saturday I got a whole session in without it occurring. On Sunday it started happening quite frequently. It can even happen whilst I am in the middle of very light maneuvers like doing AAR behind a tanker. It can even happen whilst my hand is off the stick whilst in Autopilot. It lasts typically between 10 and twenty seconds before the stick reconnects again.  I get the Windows audio chime when it connects and disconnects. However, I have turned Hotplug USB devices back on in DCS control settings to ensure I get an additional on-screen message when it connects and disconnects in game.

I only really use the HOTAS with DCS. I downloaded Star Wars Squadrons from Steam for $2 and started playing it and got a disconnect whilst playing it too. I have not played that game since, but I think this confirms it's not necessarily a DCS issue. I suspect the problem will come down to:

• Loose wiring connections either in the base or within the stick - which is probably related to them instructing me to try and narrow this down to one or the other - Winwing issue;
• A faulty chip in the joystick upstream of the USB port - Winwing Issue
• A firmware fault - Winwing issue
• faulty motherboard (not likely given this problem only happens on this one device out of many attached to the PC (Throttle, pedals, external HDD, VR headset/headtracking, mouse and keyboard)
• Inadequate power (not likely given this problem only happens on this one device out of many attached to the PC (Throttle, pedals, external HDD, VR headset/headtracking, mouse and keyboard).

I think you problem might be different. We don't get the windows chime or a disconnect event in game or software, it just stops responding. It's also happening on both throttle and stick.

Given this, it might be a hardware issue with wiring, or inadequate power for you.

Looks like two separate issues. I'm pretty sure ours is to do with the USB protocol/firmware.

 

7 hours ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

Yeah they said that to me too, to give them 'more time'. No, sorry. This issue has been happening to people for a couple of years now, by the looks of it. And they show no sign of addressing it. So I've escalated it. I should've bit the bullet and paid a little more for Virpil stuff, in hindsight. But that's on me, I've learned my lesson the hard way.

Can you update me on how it went? I have one more week to escalate, I will probably do so and ask for 50% refund and keep the items. I cannot be bothered to return it and buy a new hotas rn.

[PluckyUnderdog]

13 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I think you problem might be different. We don't get the windows chime or a disconnect event in game or software, it just stops responding. It's also happening on both throttle and stick.

Given this, it might be a hardware issue with wiring, or inadequate power for you.

Looks like two separate issues. I'm pretty sure ours is to do with the USB protocol/firmware.

 

Can you update me on how it went? I have one more week to escalate, I will probably do so and ask for 50% refund and keep the items. I cannot be bothered to return it and buy a new hotas rn.

Of course, I escalated it to PayPal yesterday, apparently Winwing has until the 8th to respond. But I'll post in here what the outcome is.

[PawlaczGMD]

43 minutes ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

Of course, I escalated it to PayPal yesterday, apparently Winwing has until the 8th to respond. But I'll post in here what the outcome is.

lol I think we bought on the same day. faulty batch?