About to give up on the Pico 4

[Dave317]

I got my Pico 4 about a week ago and I can't get the thing to look good.

I used to get decent frames on my G1 but with the Pico I'm getting about 20 FPS with 180-200 ms of latency!  No matter whether I use USB via the streaming app or wifi it's a mess.  The resolution is terrible too with everything blurry which doesn't change if I cange the resolution settings. 

Any ideas where I am going wrong before it gets retuned?

[Lange_666]

Got one 2 days ago to replace my dead Rift-S (cable probably). Took a while before i bought one, wanted something with a display port but i find these way to expensive, or it was old technology.

Still have a bit mixed feelings as i was a bit spoiled by the way the Oculus Rift-S worked (with a display port so no need for streaming). Just click DCS VR icon and off i went.

Now, either starting Virtual Desktop or Streaming Assistant on the PC, then the same in the Pico, then start SteamVR, then activate desktop mode, then start DCS (and then this doesn't always work because sometimes SteamVR will not detect the headset or Virtual Desktop keeps flickering in the headset when started and stopped a few times. Reboot PC seems to only thing to stop this.

Best performance so far is with Virtual Desktop. I run it at 90Hz but in Virtual Desktop i have ASW mode always enabled. This gives me 45 FPS fixed (PC can't coop with 90FPS constantly, could coop with 80FPS on the Rift-S either). Things run smooth but i feel that the Rift-S was smoother on 40FPS then the Pico 4 on 45FPS. can be due to the fact that the resolution is quite a bit higher.
My streaming over Wifi is not ideal and since i don't have Wifi on my motherboard (i have always run everything wired up) and for that i didn't have the need for a dedicated router. My modem is located in the garage and there are 2 rooms to cross but i get anywhere between 400 and 800 Mhz when streaming. In general this works fine except sometimes there is a big stutter. I guess this is due to the streaming working not perfectly because on the onboard DCS FPS overlay there is no spike (not even a little) when this happens.
I've tried running at 72Hz which gives 36FPS with ASW on but i find that to low for quick head or terrain movement (to much ghosting on the edges of the screen).  With something like UH-1H heli this is less noticable.

Maybe i'll invest in dedicated router to get a more stable streaming, don't know yet.
Another thing: When starting MT/ST version directly in OpenXR, i'm always located way above the menu or the cockpit. Reset of the view takes care of that but i have no idea how to correct this. Because i still have the Oculus software installed, i can start DCS with Oculus forced and then doesn't happen. With Oculus running (even if Oculus is set to native OpenXR), the view is always in the correct position when entering DCS.

Streaming Assistant doesn't work that good. It runs with the FPS capped (in nVidia CP) like in 2D. For now i can't make it work that it runs at the headset setting, either 72 or 90 + i don't know where to set ASW then. Maybe in SteamVR but i don't know where then.
Also tried with a USB connection cable but it's a micmac of what i found here at home (to make it long enough) + the little charging cable that came with it. Not exactly a link cable.
I have a dedicated one in the mail that should arrive on monday. Will run a USB-test again then.
Also on the way is a better face mask (this original one just sucks).  Also have lens inserts on order since wearing glasses inside isn't that good, the light of the screen reflects on the side of my glasses a little bit which is annoying + i have multifocal lenses on my current glasses and that isn't ideal either.

Still playing around with the resolution settings. Pico is 2160x2160 per eye but SteamVR sets it to 2544x2544 at 100%. I did read why (seems to have to do with distortion at the edges of the screen) but these different numbers make it more confusing. 

Compared to Rift-S:
Pro's:
- More weight balanced headset, not front heavy like the Rift-S.
- Better visuals, although i expected better when looking at the WOW comments on the tube.
- Better passthrough view (and in color).
- Less shimmering (probably because of the higher res).
- Hardware IPD setting.

Con's:
- Not as easy to use, way more clicking to get stuff going.
- Wearing comfort: Below par with original mask, certainly when the extra spacer is used when wearing glasses. Awaiting lens inserts and 3th party face mask.
- Due to the extra spacer bigger pipeline/tunnel vision. I have a clearly visible black circle around my view.
- Due to being a standalone headset, a lot more interaction with the controllers. On my Rift-S i could go without them. Not possible on the Pico 4.

 

[Dave317]

At the minute the best solution I have is a usb extension with a USB A to USB C converter then the supplied cable that plugs in the headset.

It will connect to WiFi but it is so slow that everything is unplayable. 

I don't have a dedicated router or the correct USB link cable but didn't really want to go and buy all of it off I'm going to return the headset anyway. 

Could my setup be causing the low resolution?  Whatever settings I change in the streaming assistant nothing changes in game. 

[SebastianR]

But you need not only usb-c cable. it't must be usb 3.0 and charge cable usualy is 2.0

[Dave317]

Ah didn't think about that. 

My extension is usb 3.0 but the small cable may not be.   Would it make that much difference? 

[Qcumber]

The Pico 4 takes a little work to get it right. I use virtual desktop WiFi through a dedicated WiFi 6 router, which you can get from Amazon for about £40. This needs to be connected to your pc through ethernet. The router should be in the same room as your headset. 

I have a modest system (5600x and rx 6700) and can get about 50-70 FPS at medium setting. The last update for VD allows upscaling via the headset to take you to ultra. With SSW (again, done through the headset) I get a reliable 45/90 in most situations (SP only so far). 

I also have a rift s and whilst there are pros and cons, I still think the Pico 4 is better. 

Don't give up on it just yet. 

[SebastianR]

4 minutes ago, Dave317 said:

Ah didn't think about that. 

My extension is usb 3.0 but the small cable may not be.   Would it make that much difference? 

I'll try it later and tell you

[Dave317]

Hopefully you are on to something Sebastian.  I tried my HP g1 earlier and the image is so much clearer. 

If rather use it over wifi but my router is in another room and I get very slow speeds.  I connect my pc via the WiFi motherboard so not totally sure yet how to set up a dedicated router. 

[Dave317]

Turns out the cable makes quite a difference.  Thanks for pointing it out. 

Latency is down to 60ish using streaming assistant and the picture quality is a lot better. 

Still can't get into the MT dcs version though without it starting in 2d.

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, Dave317 said:

Still can't get into the MT dcs version though without it starting in 2d

Have you tried adding "[space]--force_enable_VR" to the MT exe shortcut? 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Qcumber

[crispy12]

Try Virtual Desktop... I get much better performance

[Dave317]

I've got virtual desktop but it doesn't seem a great deal better than SA.  I've got a dedicated USB 3 cable coming tomorrow so I'll see what that's like. 

 

[kerlcat]

Seems you are close to master Pico4 which only needs to take a few tricks. I also learned a lot from the long thread of Pico4 setup. 

Though lack of DP output, Pico4 still offers decent PCVR experince & hugh value. It's way better than my Rift S except the convenience, the latter one just plug&play. 

With ASW on in VD & portial high setting, I got 80-90 fps & ~55ms w MT version. Cannot complain too much w/ last gen GPU flagship. Enjoy. 

[Lange_666]

On 5/10/2023 at 4:22 PM, Dave317 said:

I've got virtual desktop but it doesn't seem a great deal better than SA.  I've got a dedicated USB 3 cable coming tomorrow so I'll see what that's like.

SA and VD are about on par when it comes to visuals. I didn't see any difference between a dedicated USB cable and a good wifi connection although the cable should be more stable. Even when sitting right next to the wifi source, the speed still varies.
The big + on the VD side is that ASW works, in SA (or ALVR) it doesn't.

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, Lange_666 said:

Even when sitting right next to the wifi source, the speed still varies.

As long as it stays above 866 mbs you should be OK. If I number-watch mine it does fluctuate a bit (720-1200) but mainly remains at 1200. However, I don't notice any change in performance or visuals with the change in WiFi speed. It is probably worth looking at the latencies. VD overlay displays this. My current set up has pretty stable latencies.

My biggest problem is that my PC can only really handle simple missions with DCS. That's fine for me as I am enjoying learning to fly a K4 on the Normandy 2 map. 

Directly comparing rift s with Pico 4 I find a similar overall performance but better clarity, less screen-door, and better field of view with Pico 4. It is also a lot more comfortable to wear.

[Dave317]

Got myself a dedicated usb 3 cable not which is plugged into a usb 3 port. 

Latency is around 50ish and fps at around 70 on 100% resolution in steam vr and pixel density 1.0 in dcs.  It doesn't look anywhere near as good as my old HP reverb g1.

If I push these numbers up the latency goes up and fps goes drastically down but with no increase in image quality.  I've pushed steam vr right up to 500% and it still looks the same but just looks blurry.  Any ideas?  I'm running out of patience with it. 

[Qcumber]

47 minutes ago, Dave317 said:

Got myself a dedicated usb 3 cable not which is plugged into a usb 3 port. 

I presume you are using streaming assistant? I've not been able to get good results with that. Virtual desktop is much better. 

You could try using open xr toolkit to set the resolution and apply upscaling and sharpening. I good better results with this than just streaming assistant on its own. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Qcumber

[Dave317]

I've got virtual desktop but have to use a usb cable as my WiFi is not good enough.  I haven't got a dedicated router either as I didn't want to waste more money if the pico is going to be no good. 

I did get virtual desktop to work with usb once but it doesn't seem to work anymore. 

[Qcumber]

Virtual desktop does not support usb, only WiFi. I got a WiFi 6 router from Amazon for £40. Or you could try and ethernet to usb adaptor. This is not officially supported by VD but does work. I've not found it as reliable as WiFi though. 

[kerlcat]

Pico4 is not supporting DP, neither a meaningful tethered streaming. Its tetherd streaming is in nature still a wired network and capped at 150Mbps. Comparing to 32.4Gbps of DP1.4, the image has to be sigfinicantly compressed. No matter how aggresive you setup rendering resolution. The bottleneck is there. So it is what it is. That's the common issue of standalone headset. 70-90fps @ 50ish latency seems already somewhere close its limit in DCS w/ decent setting, more or less. Far from perfect and depends on your requirement and budget. What you would look for, is a PCVR or standalone w/ DP support. Actually, we all here are looking for a next gen PCVR headset. Not exist at this price level yet. DPVR is new one and PCVR while check on the spec to see if it's your thing. Highend, Aero seems the best one if budget ok. 

[Dave317]

Would I get better quality with a dedicated router?  Would this overcome the usb bottleneck? 

I watched tons of reviews before I bought it who all raved about how good it was compared to the G2.  From what I'm seeing is nowhere near as good.

[Lange_666]

I also based me buying the Pico on those reviews. For now it doesn't live up to it.
I don't have better quality with a dedicated router. The connection to it is just as good/bad as it is to my modem/router.
Modem located in the garage, the dedicated one sits beside my desk.
 

[Dave317]

So are all those reviews wrong or lies?  

Unless I'm missing something or got a setting wrong it's like a big step backwards.

[kerlcat]

Unfortunately, nah. The same 150mbps applies. 

[SebastianR]

Really each case is different. I speak only for myself. ryzen 5 5600x, rtx3080 and pico 4. ALVR works best for me. More fluid than the last version of the streaming assistant (which visually improved a lot with respect to the previous one). VD I tried it when version 1.25 worked without drm. The truth was that there was nothing special about it.
I used the pico4 with usb and then with a tp-link archer c6. It works almost the same. A little better for wifi. The maximum bitrate that I saw it use is approx 210mb even though it is set to 500mb.
Regarding the stuttering, I set everything to be close to 72fps (apache in Marianas is the most graphically demanding 60fps). Also in pico 4 I use battery saver mode because the center looks more defined in the sweet spot. Otherwise ALVR is less noticeable in terms of stuttering than streaming assistant. It is noticeable only looking to the sides at low altitude, where the terrain has to advance very quickly. Looking ahead, no problem.
Visual quality is the best I had (I add a list of vr that I had)
All the instruments on the panels I can read perfectly well. Image compression using foveated rendering is also very good. Divide the image into 9, the center full resolution, vertical and horizontal low quality, diagonals worse quality. But since the Pico 4's lenses are good, the overall image is very good.
The last section is comfort. It is a visor to use for many hours without being annoying on the cheekbones.
I say again that each case is unique, I never tried with video amd for example and I know that it is not the same as nvidia in the encode. But if I can say that pico 4 can work very well.
Greetings

My previous vr:

dk2
cv1 x2
htc vive
oculus go
samsung odyssey
samsung odyssey plus
hp x2
dell visor
lenovo explorer x2
rift s
quest 2
pico 4