Training Case 1 recovery problems

[Tweety777]

nullRecently I have been trying to land the Tomcat on the Stennis with still only 1 kind of succesful landing as a result, though I broke part of my landing gear and an engine during this. While going through the training (comes with the F14 module) I noticed that the FLOLS does not appear on my screen, but also the lights at the back of the boat and the landing mirror also do not light when I approach the boat. Have I missed a step here? What am I doing wrong here? 

 

While I'm at it, I'm struggling quite a lot with keeping the bird at least somewhat straight and level, or in this case on speed. I really need the autopilot on to get close to straight and level flight. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? I have tried trimming but I don't see any result of this. Also, for some reason I don't seem to be able to get the DLC working. When trying to use it and not seeing any result I sometimes go from full up to full down and back without any results.

 

Currently I use the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS, can that give me any additional difficulty flying? Can you guys help me out? 

[draconus]

Well, the T.Flight is a cheap stick, not very precise, but with enough skill and experience you can be successful with it too - the same applies to keeping it straight, level and on-speed. When configured for landing and on-speed trim the aircraft and then fly with the stick and throttle (this is your main control for angle of attack), using DLC when needed.

I can see in the mirror that you have turned DLC on. Check its operation when you press the correspoding DLC binds - then watch how your vertical speed changes.

FLOLS overlay comes with Supercarrier module and it's a special option in DCS > options > special > Supercarrier

Did you contact the carrier (Inbound) before the approach and got confirmation?

Also the Long Range Laser Lineup System may not be working currently in DCS.

Edited May 10, 2023 by draconus

[Tweety777]

Thanks for the advice Draconus. 

An inprecise stick will certainly not help. 

In the attempt you see in the screenshot I tried the DLC (I have this bound to the rudder lever on the throttle of the HOTAS) but the vertical speed did not change, this with autopilot on.

Currently I don't have the Supercarrier module so that would make things easier, though I also don't see the lights on the ship itself.

My RIO did contact the ship, but there is no reply on every attempt. The RIO calling the Ball is part of the training so you'll have your hands free for manouvring.

[Dannyvandelft]

Thanks for the advice Draconus. 
An inprecise stick will certainly not help. 
In the attempt you see in the screenshot I tried the DLC (I have this bound to the rudder lever on the throttle of the HOTAS) but the vertical speed did not change, this with autopilot on.
Currently I don't have the Supercarrier module so that would make things easier, though I also don't see the lights on the ship itself.
My RIO did contact the ship, but there is no reply on every attempt. The RIO calling the Ball is part of the training so you'll have your hands free for manouvring.

Turn autopilot off. It messes up the trim. You cannot get trimmed for on speed that way. Turn all 4 autopilot switches to off. DLC has 3 binds, activate, extend and retract. You use those to adjust your glideslope, if needed.

Try flying patterns around an airfield. Touch down, take off again, and just keep looping around. Get comfortable with the jet, then go to the boat.

Do you have any curves on your stick? I use a different stick but use a curve of 15 on both pitch and roll.

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[Tweety777]

The reason I use the autopilot (altitude and heading) is because even with autopilot turned off I get no visible result when using the trim buttons (the 8-way HAT atop the stick) so I don't really trust the trim function the way I have it now. 

The DLC is configurable as slider I thought, since the VKB F14 stick also uses a slider for this function. I know this because I intend to upgrade to the stick in the future.

I'll try the land landing pattern more often, hopefully that helps.

I have a bit of deadstick and then a curve of 10 to 13 I thought. The same value seems to work for pitch and roll for me, though I don't know if that leaves room for improvement.

[draconus]

Seems like you have problems with binding the right functions - did you do it already or just expect it to work out of the box?

You have to find "Trim nose up" command in controls > F-14 Pilot and bind it to your hat down position. Do the same for trim nose down, left and right for corresponding hat positions.

If you don't see it working, use Rctrl+Enter, press and hold whatever trim you choose. Do you see small diamond moving?

If you already have DLC bound to rudder rocker you should also see it moving in the mirror or in the external view.

I advise you to let go of the curves on the stick as soon as you feel comfortable.

[bonesvf103]

What Draconus means by RIGHT CTRL ENTER is it pops up a little on screen monitor that shows your control inputs.  You can see your trim motion in it as well as your throttle and stick.  The diamond is a little indicator where your trim is and how it is moving.

Keep in mind also that the DLC is not really a slider per se.  It is a spring loaded control so when you "slide" it forward, as soon as you release it it will pop back to the center position and vice versa.  It's not meant to stay where you left it.

AS for radio calls, these get squirrely.  It depends on if realistic radio is set or not, but sometimes you have to tune the radio to the frequency first, but others not. Sometimes it is set to easy radio but it doesn't transmit properly.  I think it's one of thoseATC things they are still working out but if you use the comm menus, it has more chance of working, jsut make sure you are using the right comm menu (com1 or com2).

v6,

boNes

[Tweety777]

Using RCTRL Enter I found that the trim does work indeed, as does the DLC. I know I need to hold DLC in position, I still mostly don't see any result of it at all, though I did see the flaps move in the mirror. There was a part in my last attempt where I managed to keep it quite stable for a small time, though nowhere near all the way through. So basically it comes down to me needing lots and lots more practise.

[Dannyvandelft]

The dlc on the F-14 stick is spring loaded. It returns to center as soon as you let go. If you don't have that, set it to switches. If you set it on a slider, it won't return to center and your making things really hard for yourself. DLC is used in little blips. You can't control a slider while working throttle and stick. I think your issue is being over saturated.

Set DLC to a thumb switch on the stick. Activate click down, open click forward, close click aft for instance. (DLC activate doubles as flare release)

Then, as you roll into the groove behind the ship, just give a few clicks here and there to adjust your glideslope according to the ball.

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[Tweety777]

The rudder slider on the throttle of my T.Flight HOTAS is also spring loaded, so to all intents and purposes it works the same as the wheel on the F14 stick.

[Dannyvandelft]

The rudder slider on the throttle of my T.Flight HOTAS is also spring loaded, so to all intents and purposes it works the same as the wheel on the F14 stick.

Ok, do you have to take your hand off the throttle to use it? I'm assuming you have rudder pedals then?

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[Tweety777]

I indeed have rudder pedals, and otherwise I could use the yaw on the stick for the rudder. The only downside to this setup is the risk to move and thereby disconnect the autothrottle. I just ordered the VKB F14 stick, let's see how much better it is then the T. Flight.

[Dannyvandelft]

I indeed have rudder pedals, and otherwise I could use the yaw on the stick for the rudder. The only downside to this setup is the risk to move and thereby disconnect the autothrottle. I just ordered the VKB F14 stick, let's see how much better it is then the T. Flight.

I have the same stick. It's amazing. You're going to love it.
If you're thinking about upgrading your throttle too, I highly recommend the Winwing Orion II

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[Tweety777]

Do you have it with the Gunfighter or the Gladiator base? I ordered the Gladiator. I also considered the WinWing Orion but at twice the price tag compared to the Thrustmaster Warthog I'll go for the Thrustmaster. Or have you found a cheaper way to import the Orion? Looking at your nickname I think we come from the same country.

[Dannyvandelft]

Do you have it with the Gunfighter or the Gladiator base? I ordered the Gladiator. I also considered the WinWing Orion but at twice the price tag compared to the Thrustmaster Warthog I'll go for the Thrustmaster. Or have you found a cheaper way to import the Orion? Looking at your nickname I think we come from the same country.

I use the gunfighter III base. I'm from the Netherlands, but live in the USA. the Winwing is much higher quality than the Warthog which was my previous throttle.
(The forum is English so I just stuck to that haha)

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[Tweety777]

Sticking with English is fine by me. I still live in The Netherlands. 

I also found that the Orion has much more buttons too, however, the price tag is way to high for me so I'll stick with the Warthog throttle.

[Dannyvandelft]

Sticking with English is fine by me. I still live in The Netherlands. 
I also found that the Orion has much more buttons too, however, the price tag is way to high for me so I'll stick with the Warthog throttle.

Yeah and it has rotary knobs which is great for radio channels and lighting.

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[Tweety777]

That is also quite useful indeed. I might use Touch Portal for that and perhaps I'll build a button box myself someday if I feel up to it. I'm building and programming my own transmitter for a radio controlled shipmodel so a button box including rotary knobs shouldn't be much of a challenge for me.

[SCPGrinder66]

Before you even get serious about carrier landings, I would just take the aircraft up to 1000 ft + and practice flying around in the landing config... staying on speed with gear down, full flaps, dlc engaged, full speedbrake. Once trimmed for on speed, you should be able to keep her within the e-bracket using throttle alone. Once you get on speed, she will basically fly herself with you manipulating the throttle only. You can even bump the throttle a bit higher and adjust trim (if necessary) to keep the aircraft from descending - fly around like that just practicing controlling it and feel what minute changes to throttle and forward and aft stick pressure make as well as pushing DLC forward.....you should notice a major shift in descent rate and then back off DLC (or pull it all the way in) to retard that descent. Once you get that down, add in some turns where you initiate with the rudder, add in some stick pressure while giving it a bit of throttle ....the goal should be to keep the orange donut while you are doing all this. If you lose it,  learn what adjustments you need to make to get back on speed while in the turn and especially as you come out of the turn (as if you were turning onto final). When you master full control of the aircraft in this config, where you are making all these adjustments as second nature, then take it to a runway and do touch and go's until you can put it in the same spot (or close) every time. THEN go to the carrier!

Good luck - like anything else: perfect practice makes perfect.  If you've even been near a Navy base, you'll see that when sections come in to land they almost never full-stop first approach. They usually do 2-5 touch and go's every time. Even the pro's have to continually practice - it's a perishable skill. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by SCPGrinder66

[scommander2]

Okay, I just tried training case 1 recovery with autopilot twice.  Trimming little to make the nose heading on the middle of the deck, watching AOA/Approach Indexer,  and enabled DLC few feet before touching down if needed.  

Edited May 11, 2023 by scommander2

[Tweety777]

6 hours ago, SCPGrinder66 said:

Before you even get serious about carrier landings, I would just take the aircraft up to 1000 ft + and practice flying around in the landing config... staying on speed with gear down, full flaps, dlc engaged, full speedbrake. Once trimmed for on speed, you should be able to keep her within the e-bracket using throttle alone. Once you get on speed, she will basically fly herself with you manipulating the throttle only. You can even bump the throttle a bit higher and adjust trim (if necessary) to keep the aircraft from descending - fly around like that just practicing controlling it and feel what minute changes to throttle and forward and aft stick pressure make as well as pushing DLC forward.....you should notice a major shift in descent rate and then back off DLC (or pull it all the way in) to retard that descent. Once you get that down, add in some turns where you initiate with the rudder, add in some stick pressure while giving it a bit of throttle ....the goal should be to keep the orange donut while you are doing all this. If you lose it,  learn what adjustments you need to make to get back on speed while in the turn and especially as you come out of the turn (as if you were turning onto final). When you master full control of the aircraft in this config, where you are making all these adjustments as second nature, then take it to a runway and do touch and go's until you can put it in the same spot (or close) every time. THEN go to the carrier!

Good luck - like anything else: perfect practice makes perfect.  If you've even been near a Navy base, you'll see that when sections come in to land they almost never full-stop first approach. They usually do 2-5 touch and go's every time. Even the pro's have to continually practice - it's a perishable skill. 

 

That sounds like a plan, I'll do that.

[draconus]

6 hours ago, scommander2 said:

Okay, I just tried training case 1 recovery with autopilot twice.  Trimming little to make the nose heading on the middle of the deck, watching AOA/Approach Indexer,  and enabled DLC few feet before touching down if needed. 

Unless wanted to just screw around:

- no AP

- you have to head a bit right, because of the carrier movement and angled deck

- enable DLC just after flaps down

[scommander2]

7 hours ago, draconus said:

Unless wanted to just screw around

ohhh... forgot to mention that auto throttle if needed and just do not forget full mil power on deck.

Edited May 11, 2023 by scommander2

[Tweety777]

And not afterburner to avoid pulling the wire out and ending up in the ocean

[scommander2]

11 minutes ago, Tweety777 said:

And not afterburner to avoid pulling the wire out and ending up in the ocean

You got it right