AGM-114L and you: Why shouting "I cast magic missile!" doesn't work

[DmitriKozlowsky]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:28 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

BLUF: The AGM-114L Longbow HELLFIRE is an extremely advanced and capable missile, but is limited by the skill of the crew utilizing it.

Preface: The AGM-114L is an active radar guided missile, containing its own radar and inertial system, with the same warhead and motor as an AGM-114K. It is fire and forget, with no input or data links after launch. It can be cued with the TADS, FCR, or RFHO. However, it has a number of limitations that must be understood in order to maximize the weapon's effectiveness. It is not a perfect, flawless, Macross Missile Massacre, kill-all-16-tanks at once, infallible missile. Knowing when and where to use the AGM-114L is an important skill for any aspiring AH-64 crew.

The AGM-114L goes into a standby mode at aircraft powerup. This standby mode is largely irrelevant in the context of DCS, but incorporates a number of PBIT features, environmental data, positional data, and other important information. When fully loaded into the standby mode, the missile will be indicated with an S. It remains in this state until the missiles are actioned and given appropriate target data, where they will shift into prelaunch mode. Appropriate target data must be from the correct source, which is limited to the FCR, TADS, or RFHO (Radio Frequency HandOver). Target points, INS coordinates, or other mechanisms are not appropriate sources, as these do not have all the necessary data required for the missile. This data includes a different reference mechanism for the missile (it is not GPS guided nor MGRS/LL referenced), angular target rate, and other important information. Postlaunch occurs after the firing command has been given. This process encompasses all the necessary steps, mostly automatic, that result in the missile launching and heading toward the target.

The missile will automatically select LOBL or LOAL modes depending on the nature of the target. Moving targets will almost always attempt LOBL, while stationary targets are generally LOAL. LOBL is the longest range mode due to the nature of moving targets, and will be utilized when targets are moving or attempted when the range is less than 2.5km. Even though LOAL might be indicated <2.5km, the missile will immediately go to terminal acquisition after launch. Beware that when doing so, the missile may not go for the target you specifically want: the missile at this range can grab the first target it finds, which could be closer or further than your intended target. Utilizing the LOBL INHIBIT function can assist with hitting a target closer to a predicted position as opposed to the closest moving target to the position. A DBS trajectory will not occur at ranges less than 2.5km as the distance is too short for effective DBS. Beyond this range, DBS is utilized on stationary targets. DBS may also occur if a moving target stops mid-flight, but only if the range is greater than 2.5km. The trajectory of the missile is based upon the range to the target, where the maximum range will yield a maximum altitude of 3km. DBS trajectories can displace laterally by up to 1km.

There are three possible ways to provide targets to the AGM-114L: FCR, TADS, or RFHO. The FCR and TADS are the only self-designation options for the AGM-114L. The FCR is the only one to provide primary and secondary targets to the missile, and at that will only do so if the primary target is stationary. TADS and RFHO are the only ones capable of engaging stationary targets at maximum range. Currently, TADS is the only mechanism available, and thus can only be utilized by the CPG. To use it, the CPG must sight select TADS, at which point the "TYPE" field on the WPN page becomes disbarred, allowing RF to be selected (if SAL missiles are also loaded). Current best practices are to utilize the LMC to align the TADS on target, followed by IAT to track it. A steady lase is required for three seconds to properly pass target data to a missile and failure to do this can result in erratic target data. Hold the laser as long as possible to maximize accuracy. Do not wait long after the target data has been passed to fire, because the greater the time delay, the greater the error in target position. If you're expecting to be able to lase, then hide, do not expect the missile to hit exactly what you're aiming at. Acquire and fire as rapidly as possible. This will be vital when the RFHO arrives, as it too is vulnerable to data errors over time. Plan, assign, and engage rapidly.

When launching a missile, keep in mind the relative bearing of the target to the missile's centerline. If the target is to the left of the missile, a DBS profile can cause it to shift right, vice versa if the target is right. The clearer the picture the missile has, the better its overall accuracy. That means you might need to shift the aircraft left or right to present the missile with the best view. Further, if utilizing LOAL and DBS, you can launch missiles that approach from different directions by altering the heading to ensure a left or right trajectory. The closer to the missile's centerline, the more random it may be. Within DCS, after launch the missile immediately gives track warnings, so if the target has a RWR, it is likely to know about your missile. The missile has extremely limited energy potential, so targets with high agility (ie fighter jets) have a much narrower engagement envelope. However, nobody likes the rapid "deedle" of an active-radar homing missile on their RWR, so even a long range shot can alter a potential threat's decision matrix, and the AGM-114L is extremely hard to notch. Helicopters are more vulnerable and they must take significant evasive maneuvers to defeat the missile.

Moving targets, while easily tracked with moving target mode, present some additional difficulties. Currently, DCS ground vehicle behavior defaults to dispersion when a unit is hit from the air. In a mobile convoy, this means that after your first missile is shot, if you have any others in flight, they may not track the right target. This is due to a variance in predicted target position at launch versus actual position. The missile is likely to grab the target closest to predicted position, not actual position, so keep this in mind if engaging mobile units. This can also apply to static units that disperse after a hit.

If absolute precision is required and a target must be destroyed, then a SAL missile should be the primary tool utilized to destroy it. Remote engagements are far more flexible with SAL missiles, with greater options for masking and targeting. RF missiles are in their element when used against large columns of units where all must be destroyed in a rapid fashion, regardless of order. They should also be the preferred weapon against rotary wing threats and aerial threats, though with the understanding that the more aware the threat is, the less likely the chance of a successful hit.

Macross MIssile Massacre with Hellfires is an awesome effect. In fact it was attempted in real life in MidEast project of mounting multiple ground launched Hellfire boxes on long bed semi-tractor flatbed trailer. Marines and Swedish Defense are working on a swarm Hellfire launcher for small ships and shore installations.

I fel in love with Robotech becouse if Macross Missile Massacre. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Not privy to classified info. But I bet in RL. FCR equipped 64D ir E Apache will recognize, prioritize, and distribute up to 4 targets to  non-FCR equipped Apaches or Hellfire carrying drones.

AH-64 and Hellfire were designed to balance out NATO low tank anti-tank armor , to high count Soviet-Warsaw Pact tank armies in Europe. As Soviet armor outnumbered NATO armor 10 to 1

[NeedzWD40]

On 10/13/2023 at 3:34 AM, FalcoGer said:

INS should not drift as much with a modern laser ring gyro set and constant GPS corrections. It's constantly correcting and keeping track with the doppler ground radar.

Also INS shouldn't be apart in any of this, but it somehow is...

But I don't think the missile has a full INS on board, an accelerometer at best, to know the difference in locations after being launched. Could be wrong though.

Also with INS misaligned, when the TADS is slaved to a point, the cued line of sight indicator (the dashed cross) is not centered in the display. The TADS is pointing offset according to the bad INS data, but the indicator somehow knows the exact position of the point. And that's when the hellfires miss. I don't feel like making a bug report with the next update being around the corner, which might fix this or break it in a different way, but this is a complicated mess.

 

Unfortunately, it seems a number of modules are rife with INU issues (Ka-50, F/A-18 w/o GPS), but according to BigNewy, these issues are supposed to be addressed soon.

AGM-114L and AGM-114R both have INUs for trajectory shaping (all other models to my knowledge use gyros). The ownship INU provides initial alignment data, with target coordinates generated in a local coordinate system (North-East-Down). Even if the ownship INU has drifted, the missile doesn't (or shouldn't) care as it works in reference to the ownship.

Within DCS, my suspicion is that the ownship INU has a stealth drift/misalignment that builds up rapidly and never corrects until an INU reset is commanded, while the AGM-114L retains a "perfect" alignment, leading to coordinate mismatch when target data is passed. The part I don't understand is some maps like Syria have more rapid drift than others like Caucasus.

On 10/13/2023 at 11:05 PM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Macross MIssile Massacre with Hellfires is an awesome effect. In fact it was attempted in real life in MidEast project of mounting multiple ground launched Hellfire boxes on long bed semi-tractor flatbed trailer. Marines and Swedish Defense are working on a swarm Hellfire launcher for small ships and shore installations.

I fel in love with Robotech becouse if Macross Missile Massacre. 

On 10/13/2023 at 11:11 PM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Not privy to classified info. But I bet in RL. FCR equipped 64D ir E Apache will recognize, prioritize, and distribute up to 4 targets to  non-FCR equipped Apaches or Hellfire carrying drones.

AH-64 and Hellfire were designed to balance out NATO low tank anti-tank armor , to high count Soviet-Warsaw Pact tank armies in Europe. As Soviet armor outnumbered NATO armor 10 to 1

Getting a multi-ship AH-64 engagement with missiles is a sight to behold and quite effective with well-drilled crews. The last part is usually the hardest to get coordinated.

The Swedish have the RBS-17 which is basically a AGM-114C with some tweaks on a tripod for coastal defense duties. They've operated them since the 80s as I understand it. I've seen a lot of other proposals for ground or vehicle launched variations, but most have never been deployed in actual use. M-SHORAD was going to use AGM-114L as part of its package before they switched over to FIM-92 entirely.

The RFHO capability isn't limited to just 4 targets and it's been a part of the D model since Block 1. The FCR itself can detect up to 256 targets and prioritize 16, so figure somewhere in those numbers is what can be sent to other AH-64s. The E models have gained MUMTi datalinks in the last 2 years, but I can't say as to what drones that system works with or any other limitations it might have.

The Cold War era helicopter anti-tank plan came about because trying to match Soviet armor 1:1 would have been prohibitively expensive for NATO. The introduction of TOW, HOT, and similar missiles in the 60s and 70s, coupled with helicopter based launchers tested in Vietnam, changed the dynamic. A helicopter was comparatively cheaper to acquire and deploy, could potentially knock out multiple armored vehicles before being shot down, and offered a number of other advantages outside of direct fires. The AH-64 was an improvement on the concepts pioneered by AH-1, Bo 105, Gazelle, and similar aircraft. As a point of curiosity, at the time, the AH-64 program manager insisted that AGM-114 would be an AH-64-only weapon, and no other platform was to employ it.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Well AGM-114 became an all pourpuse weapon. Its replacement is about size of Helfire , but is intended to replace Helfire, Maverick, TOW and some others for helicopter, fixed wing, drone ground, and naval surface fired missile. 

[NIGHTHAWK1]

Maybe a little off subject.  I just committed Fratricide.  I launched a Lima trying to get a tank behind a tree.  Approaching  troops were to close and the lima took out one of my own vehicles.  Would be interesting the know what is the minimum safe distance for  launching a lima? 

[NeedzWD40]

3 hours ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

Would be interesting the know what is the minimum safe distance for  launching a lima?

The only figures I can find give a danger close range of 110 meters for all AGM-114 types.