High en PC, DDR5 Ram, will 64 GB be better?

[motoadve]

Varjo VR, AMD 7800X3D , 4090, 32 GB DDR5, will upgrading to 64GB improve performance? Or be waste.

I fly SP and MP.

Edited May 22, 2023 by motoadve

[Beirut]

Yes.

 

I went from from 32 to 64GB and saw RAM use jump from 27 to 37GB on the Syria map.

[Beirut]

Actually, you should ask @Thinder

 

He's got the RAM game down cold. 

[Eugel]

I´d say it´s worth it. I got rid of microstutters in Syria after upgrading from 32 to 64 GB and I assume in multiplayer missions with a lot of stuff going on, it should also help.

[Hiob]

IMHO, building such a cutting edge rig and then cheap oout on the ram doesn't make any sense.
I jumped from my old rig with 16 GB to 64 GB in my currrent one - so I don't have a direct comparison to 32 GB but there are several reports that DCS is one of the games that can indeed profit from 64 GB RAM. But don't expect wonders. There are at least dozens of different - unrelated - reasons for stuttering. The most common culprit is probably Windows itself.

(edit: and as I just found out recently - some hardware monitoring software can cause much more trouble than other.... so just in case you have any other software running in the background (including processes without application), try disabling one by another and check the effects on the stuttering)

Edited May 22, 2023 by Hiob

[kerlcat]

Consider it’s no brainer to have 64GB RAM given you already had 7800X3D+4090+Varjo :-). And it’s not a big invest at all as of today ‘s pricing of DDR5. 

[Thinder]

11 hours ago, Hiob said:

there are several reports that DCS is one of the games that can indeed profit from 64 GB RAM.

If you play at lower resolutions with a DDR4 Cl16 RAM you might find a slight improvement but with Cl14, it's not gonna work at 4K, in fact you lose 24% in performance simply because your CPU controller is going to throttle down, they are not designed to support 4 ranks, only the 8GB sticks does have one rank per stick.

So if you play at 4K, the gain over 64GB is obvious, capacity is one thing but a DDR4 32GB Cl14 kit is gonna recycle the same quantity of data (IF you have similar latency and frequency) PLUS the 32GB difference between the configurations nearly 3 times per mn on bandwidth and CPU throttling down alone, I'm curious to know how you'll manage to get 64 GB of DDR4 give you better performances in any game once you've set up a Cl14 4 x 1 stick kit.

As I said I'm not into "several reports" especially when there is no precise specs and settings provided for the comparison, I tested those kits back to back in 3DMark Pro at 4K 2 X MSAA and play them in DCS too.

Here is the complete list:

When I test I play at tree-top level in environments that demands a lot of redraw work from the GPU, at high settings as well, if my RAM was an issue, my results would be a lot lower, it is not the case, the only limitation I get is GPU thermal limits, not RAM.

Now I wont pretend that this will work with a DDR5 system but no one is gonna make me believe that 64GB of RAM works better than 32GB Cl14 DDR4, I know it doesn't and I know why.

Here is what MSI Tech support replied to a request for information I made before I purchased my first GSkill kit, they replied a week after.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Thinder

[Thinder]

14 hours ago, motoadve said:

Varjo VR, AMD 7800X3D , 4090, 32 GB DDR5, will upgrading to 64GB improve performance? Or be waste.

I fly SP and MP.

To answer more precisely to your question, since you run an AMD and they have been designed for lower latency, I'd go for the RAM kit offering the combination of the lowest latency and highest bandwidth, this way you will take advantage of the 7800X3D cache.

I don't know DDR5 RAM that well but if AMD increased their CPU bandwidth it is no reason to assume they increased the limits of the controller when it comes to the number of ranks it can handle, Corsair and GSkill pair them by two sticks, which seems to indicate that 4 ranks are the best combination for DDR5 systems.

Better keep to their limitations and those of your CPU.

Quote

Max Memory Speed

2x1R DDR5-5200

2x2R DDR5-5200

4x1R DDR5-3600

4x2R DDR5-3600

AMD Ryzen™ 7 7800X3D

If you're after performances, the G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo EXPO looks very good but like anything out of AMD recommended maximum frequency, you need to check that your CPU and motherboard supports it, just like a 3600MHz kit for DDR4 4 maxed-out at 3200NHz.

QVL compatibility is for single memory kit only.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Thinder

[Hiob]

@Thinder I'm not opposing anything you wrote, but I think you mixed together two things.

a) Is the "computing" performance which is very much depending on how good and fast memory is connected to/ can be adressed by the CPU. Everything you wrote is correct in this regard afaik.

b) How much data can be cached in the memory before the application needs to read from the drives. I think this is where the (marginal) profits from 64 GB RAM in DCS come from. Fewer reads from harddrives/ssds. I think this is mostly unrelated to a).

However. As I said, I'm not really a believer that 64 GB over 32 GB in DCS is such a big deal (in most cases). And the most likely causes for stutters is to find somewhere else.

[Thinder]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

@Thinder I'm not opposing anything you wrote, but I think you mixed together two things.

a) Is the "computing" performance which is very much depending on how good and fast memory is connected to/ can be adressed by the CPU. Everything you wrote is correct in this regard afaik.

AMD released a video to explain the reasoning behind the X 3D series, more specifically the 7 5800X 3D and made it clear it was lower latency.

Quote

b) How much data can be cached in the memory before the application needs to read from the drives. I think this is where the (marginal) profits from 64 GB RAM in DCS come from. Fewer reads from harddrives/ssds. I think this is mostly unrelated to a).

 

+1, fast SSD read/write play a role, 3,500/3,300 MB/s for a 970 EVO, but you need the RAM to do its job as fast as possible

Quote

However. As I said, I'm not really a believer that 64 GB over 32 GB in DCS is such a big deal (in most cases). And the most likely causes for stutters is to find somewhere else.

This was one reason for my choice to stay with DDR4 as a proven and mature technical solution, I didn't think that 32GB of DDR4 Cl14 would be an issue, and after all the testing I've done, I still think it was the right choice for me, not saying other players are wrong to go for DDR5, but I am more comfortable with DDR4 for the time being.

I had loads of issues with my new rig, a faulty PCI_E1 slot, Windows update messing up AMD drivers and preventing the GPU to boost, etc but now it's sorted and I'm getting there although I think there still is room for improvements, in this test I didn't set the RAM frequency properly it runs now at 3600MHz but it sure isn't as bottleneck.

I'm waiting for further DCS MT updates to get back to it fully, for the moment I am looking at the quality of the graphic with the GPU setting I have and with Elite Dangerous, in some environments (inside a station) visuals are stunning, I run the game with everything maxed-up and I believe that maybe when MT will be really efficient it will be possible to do so in DCS too.

For the moment out of the 8 cores, only one runs above 50% and this can be improved.

PS I'm making inquieries to ASUS to know if it is possible to add a Samsung 990 Pro SSD, if it is, I will install DCS on it on M2_1, it should contribute to make this rig faster (7,450 MBps / 6,900 MBps vs 3,500 MB/s3,200 MB/s ).

Originally I had installed it on the SSD I already have but during a fresh Windows 11 Install, didn't, the second drive (SATA) wasn't fitted.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Thinder