Introducing Meta Quest 3

[Grodin]

Could some quest 3 owner vefiry if F16 OSB button texts (HSD, TGP, WPN, SMS etc etc) are easily and clearly readable from the default head position or do you have to move closer to see them well? Trying to figure out how much clarity i would be losing if changing from G2 to Q3.

[Dogmanbird]

I have been testing on a tplink axe75 using VD-OXR at 6ghz

Until the recent beta (I haven't yet tested) VD connects to the headset at a fairly constant 2100 to 2400 (1m from headset), but I'm finding VD overall quality not very good for flying as it's mushy and inconsistent, tested at all bitrates and codecs. If it could use ASW at lower frequencies, rather than just half the desired fps, that would be nice. For a cruisy MSFS2020 styled flight, I'd probably be happy with it's results, but in DCS where I'm looking for a single pixel against the sky, it's not usable.

Air Link looks good (almost as good as cable) and image quality is more consistent, but there is a bit of lag when moving the head if using very high settings, at least on my system

Edited October 23, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[sze5003]

Airlink for me on the Pro was also completely lagging just to get into the oculus desktop environment and this is on dedicated 6e router.

I've heard VD is actually supposed to be better in this regard but I guess it's weird to hear it's not.

[Hoirtel]

6 hours ago, sze5003 said:

Airlink for me on the Pro was also completely lagging just to get into the oculus desktop environment and this is on dedicated 6e router.

I've heard VD is actually supposed to be better in this regard but I guess it's weird to hear it's not.

So for me if I launch airlink with a encode bitrate in ODT above 200 it will lag. My current setting of 900 (cable) it won't even launch. I have to set this back to 0 and then can max the options in the headset which is upto 200. Sadly I don't think this is using AV1 as it looks bad. Anyone else know how to use higher bitrate over airlink? 

[Dogmanbird]

Just tested the new VD beta and is a big improvement on my PC. Similar or better performance to airlink

Haven't yet managed to get the headset audio, vr controllers or hand tracking to work

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[Hoirtel]

1 hour ago, Dogmanbird said:

Just tested the new VD beta and is a big improvement on my PC. Similar or better performance to airlink

Haven't yet managed to get the headset audio, vr controllers or hand tracking to work

 

 

does the beta now include openxr?

[Dogmanbird]

it appears to have some version bundled

In the openXR-switcher app, it shows as a new entry to select from

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

For anyone still having trouble getting smooth performance, I've just realised I've been using the 'sliced encoding' option in oculus debug tool throughout my testing, which isn't the default setting.. Turning this off gives me consistent jitters that I can't prevent by using 30hz ASW

[sze5003]

So for me if I launch airlink with a encode bitrate in ODT above 200 it will lag. My current setting of 900 (cable) it won't even launch. I have to set this back to 0 and then can max the options in the headset which is upto 200. Sadly I don't think this is using AV1 as it looks bad. Anyone else know how to use higher bitrate over airlink? 

Yea this must have been it for me too. While i was testing DCS out I was launching instant action missions, then exiting, then playing with the encode bitrate. So it was definitely not at 0.

I think I need to lower the bitrate down still from 740. It seemed smooth but I swear I had some audio stutter, even if it was very slightly.

What instant action mission is the best representation of a test?

Also do we need to change encode resolution width ? I was following a video on YouTube and the guy had it set to 3905 but I'm not sure what this does or what it should be in regards to the other variables.

[Hoirtel]

11 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

Yea this must have been it for me too. While i was testing DCS out I was launching instant action missions, then exiting, then playing with the encode bitrate. So it was definitely not at 0.

I think I need to lower the bitrate down still from 740. It seemed smooth but I swear I had some audio stutter, even if it was very slightly.

What instant action mission is the best representation of a test?

Also do we need to change encode resolution width ? I was following a video on YouTube and the guy had it set to 3905 but I'm not sure what this does or what it should be in regards to the other variables.

I read somewhere on a meta forum that its set automatically based on your render res settings. I don't change it from 0 but then not done any specific testing. Not sure forcing a value makes much sense especially if changing pixel density/super sampling/upscaling etc. I may be wrong.

[nilpointer]

Just to second someone else's post, I just tried the new VD beta after days of attempted link tweaking... absolutely night and day.

[halufpv]

I have a Quest 2 and decided it's time to upgrade. I always buy used. The pro is 10% more expensive than the 3, not enough to make a difference. I think the consensus is if my use case is mostly flight sim PCVR, the pro is the way to go.

I do acknowledge the argument some are making that the Pro is a risky purchase because it's been a flop, which means Oculus might not support it. I'd say this argument is misguided.

 

• Meta is a big company, and the Quest line of products are tightly integrated in software. It's not like there's a different set of tools used for the Pro than the rest, and what we need from it is to just act as a glorified monitor via link. I don't see this breaking any time soon. 
• The fact that it's been a flop means the second hand prices are and will be juicy for a while, as most people purchasing them for metaverse crap will move on.
• The direction of VR is eye tracking foveted rendering. PS5 has shown the way here, the difference is so huge this isn't going away any time soon. It's very likely DCS will eventually support this natively (I hear their military contract with Varjo actually requires them to do this...) and once most people are running headsets with eye tracking, noone will care for what performance people without it are getting. 

For all these reasons, I think the first mass market affordable headset with eye tracking isn't actually going away any time soon and it's what I'll be buying

[sze5003]

I read somewhere on a meta forum that its set automatically based on your render res settings. I don't change it from 0 but then not done any specific testing. Not sure forcing a value makes much sense especially if changing pixel density/super sampling/upscaling etc. I may be wrong.

This is what I found too. I think setting it back to 0 would be the right thing to do. Also didn't realize but each time a change is made in the debug tool you need to restart the oculus service.



Encode resolution width is output resolution. It's the resolution of image that is actually output to the display.

You can change it in debug tool. The default value is 0 (automatic), and the actual value is 3664 (Air Link may be 2880. And These are the max value in automatic setting, so may be lower depend on PC spec or bug). The max launchable value is around 4064 for both Link and Air Link. To apply the change, input value -> press enter -> click Service -> select Restart Oculus Service.

Note: According to Aksoy (graphics programmer of Meta), render res 5408x2736 & encode res 3664 are required to achieve 1:1 ratio for Quest2 panel. It requires good PC.

Encode res has a big impact on VRAM consumption as well as render res.

[sze5003]

I have a Quest 2 and decided it's time to upgrade. I always buy used. The pro is 10% more expensive than the 3, not enough to make a difference. I think the consensus is if my use case is mostly flight sim PCVR, the pro is the way to go.
I do acknowledge the argument some are making that the Pro is a risky purchase because it's been a flop, which means Oculus might not support it. I'd say this argument is misguided.
 

• Meta is a big company, and the Quest line of products are tightly integrated in software. It's not like there's a different set of tools used for the Pro than the rest, and what we need from it is to just act as a glorified monitor via link. I don't see this breaking any time soon. 
• The fact that it's been a flop means the second hand prices are and will be juicy for a while, as most people purchasing them for metaverse crap will move on.
• The direction of VR is eye tracking foveted rendering. PS5 has shown the way here, the difference is so huge this isn't going away any time soon. It's very likely DCS will eventually support this natively (I hear their military contract with Varjo actually requires them to do this...) and once most people are running headsets with eye tracking, noone will care for what performance people without it are getting. 

For all these reasons, I think the first mass market affordable headset with eye tracking isn't actually going away any time soon and it's what I'll be buying

I was under the same dilemma with a G2 and I'm glad I got a Pro.

I did buy it new so I can get warranty and I will be keeping it assuming I can get over all the USB issues I've been having. I spent so much time trying third party cables and now using an official link cable and type C port on my motherboard but I have a bit of doubt with this port so I've also been looking at other alternatives. Obviously if I can't figure it out it will get returned sadly.

I think once I figure out the correct order of settings to optimize it, will be awesome. Just alone on default settings it looked good in DCs and better than the G2 with the clarity all over.

I also enjoy the build quality of the pro. I'm just a little upset that they didn't go with a native display port connection. Relying on USB where you have all sorts of motherboards out there with different varying results for connecting for PCVR feels like an oversight but I also understand it was developed for business and development use, probably not for titles like DCS.

[halufpv]

7 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

I also enjoy the build quality of the pro. I'm just a little upset that they didn't go with a native display port connection. Relying on USB where you have all sorts of motherboards out there with different varying results for connecting for PCVR feels like an oversight but I also understand it was developed for business and development use, probably not for titles like DCS.

It's because with Oculus, your computer isn't connected to the screen directly like it would with hdmi or dp, it's instead sending a video feed to the goggles (like youtube or netflix), and the googles then render it on the screens. 

[Dogmanbird]

during this last week, I think i've tried just about all combinations of settings, just to get back to the performance I had with the reverb G2.

system 5800x3d, 4090, 32gig ram 3600, all NVME drives

 

Things I'm fairly confident make the difference;

 

in Oculus PC software;

- don't touch the oculus device resolution setting. leave it set to auto. ASW doesn't seem to engage under certain conditions if the res not at auto

- set your 72 /80 / 90 hz as you wish.

 

in OBT, don't adjust anything except;

- use sliced encoding

- bitrate at either 500 or 960 (keeps consistent audio)

- set sharpening to quality

- set pixel density to whatever gives you satisfactory sharpness v performance (or leave it at 0 and do it in the game)

 

in OXRTK;

- turn on turbo mode

 

in ODBT CLI;

- set ASW to 30Hz

 

For me so far, nothing else seems to improve the results.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hoirtel]

1 hour ago, sze5003 said:

This is what I found too. I think setting it back to 0 would be the right thing to do. Also didn't realize but each time a change is made in the debug tool you need to restart the oculus service.



Encode resolution width is output resolution. It's the resolution of image that is actually output to the display.

You can change it in debug tool. The default value is 0 (automatic), and the actual value is 3664 (Air Link may be 2880. And These are the max value in automatic setting, so may be lower depend on PC spec or bug). The max launchable value is around 4064 for both Link and Air Link. To apply the change, input value -> press enter -> click Service -> select Restart Oculus Service.

Note: According to Aksoy (graphics programmer of Meta), render res 5408x2736 & encode res 3664 are required to achieve 1:1 ratio for Quest2 panel. It requires good PC.

Encode res has a big impact on VRAM consumption as well as render res.
 

So the takeaway is that we should change it. I max the render res slider and set the bitrate at them moment to 800. Should I change the res width? not sure what this would be for the Q3

53 minutes ago, Dogmanbird said:

during this last week, I think i've tried just about all combinations of settings, just to get back to the performance I had with the reverb G2.

system 5800x3d, 4090, 32gig ram 3600, all NVME drives

 

Things I'm fairly confident make the difference;

 

in Oculus PC software;

- don't touch the oculus device resolution setting. leave it set to auto. ASW doesn't seem to engage under certain conditions if the res not at auto

- set your 72 /80 / 90 hz as you wish.

 

in OBT, don't adjust anything except;

- use sliced encoding

- bitrate at either 500 or 960 (keeps consistent audio)

- set sharpening to quality

- set pixel density to whatever gives you satisfactory sharpness v performance (or leave it at 0 and do it in the game)

 

in OXRTK;

- turn on turbo mode

 

in ODBT CLI;

- set ASW to 30Hz

 

For me so far, nothing else seems to improve the results.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting there seems to be some different experiences with link sharpening. For me, the normal setting is night and day the sharpest, which seems odd as its the middle setting of the group. However sharpest may not be better if it gives more aliasing but so far I am using it more than others. Is quality actually the sharpest for you?

[sze5003]

My take on the encode resolution width from that statement is, if you use the automatic resolution setting in oculus home, you don't need to change the encode resolution width in the debug tool.

If you don't use automatic resolution in oculus home then you would want to make sure the encode resolution width in debug tool matches the width that is set in oculus home (from the slider). But honestly I could also be wrong too.

[Dogmanbird]

9 hours ago, Hoirtel said:

 

Interesting there seems to be some different experiences with link sharpening. For me, the normal setting is night and day the sharpest, which seems odd as its the middle setting of the group. However sharpest may not be better if it gives more aliasing but so far I am using it more than others. Is quality actually the sharpest for you?

I haven't used 'normal' since the 2.9 update and switching to DLAA.  Previously I found it a little too cartoon-ish looking and it exaggerated the shimmers, especially on the q-pro which is lacking resolution to begin with. I'll give it a try again 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[Hoirtel]

7 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

I haven't used 'normal' since the 2.9 update and switching to DLAA.  Previously I found it a little too cartoon-ish looking and it exaggerated the shimmers, especially on the q-pro which is lacking resolution to begin with. I'll give it a try again 

 

Based on what you said I think we are seeing the same thing. Yes I have wondered if it is adding too much as I can't add any in-game sharpening (with MSAA) without it looking over done. I am still experimenting with settings for visuals, so may try back to quality and upping the in game sharpening to compensate. I am using MFAA with MSAA and 1.3 PD to reduce shimmers which helps a lot. Starting to understand the options I have for settings now and what I can and can't do but haven't quite decided on which option I like the most.

[Dogmanbird]

gave 'normal' another try. I think it helps the MFD text readability ever so slightly, though I still prefer the look of 'quality' overall

[Mr Wave Off]

I have problems starting DCS World via Virtual Desktop Beta with AV1 codec on Meta Quest 3. Q3 is connected via wifi 6 to PC (virtual desktop streamer beta), i don´t have openxr toolkit, steamvr installed and don´t use Oculus app.

Launching the game via virtual desktop streamer.

PC launches the game but my Headsets turns black and music is played from virtual desktop  which it just does when it´s disconnected.

2 times i made it into DCS Main Menu but as soon as i wanted to start free flight the same happened.

1 time i made it in with AV1 and could start free flight but when i went back to main menu and wanted to start new free flight it happened again.

Have to close game on PC and virtual desktop via meta desktop and also close desktop streamer on pc and kill background process of VD and VDS in taskmanager (if i don´t do it and try to get into VD on Headset i´ll return to black screen with music no menu etc pp).

I don´t know what´s the problem with AV1 codec as with HVEC 264+ i don´t have this issue, it works properly.

System: CPU AMD 7800x3d, GPU AMD 7800xt, RAM 32 GB 6000, Samsung SSD Nvme.2 970 1TB

I´m new to VR and i´m kind of lost finding a solution.

[Hoirtel]

6 minutes ago, Mr Wave Off said:

I have problems starting DCS World via Virtual Desktop Beta with AV1 codec on Meta Quest 3. Q3 is connected via wifi 6 to PC (virtual desktop streamer beta), i don´t have openxr toolkit, steamvr installed and don´t use Oculus app.

Launching the game via virtual desktop streamer.

PC launches the game but my Headsets turns black and music is played from virtual desktop  which it just does when it´s disconnected.

2 times i made it into DCS Main Menu but as soon as i wanted to start free flight the same happened.

1 time i made it in with AV1 and could start free flight but when i went back to main menu and wanted to start new free flight it happened again.

Have to close game on PC and virtual desktop via meta desktop and also close desktop streamer on pc and kill background process of VD and VDS in taskmanager (if i don´t do it and try to get into VD on Headset i´ll return to black screen with music no menu etc pp).

I don´t know what´s the problem with AV1 codec as with HVEC 264+ i don´t have this issue, it works properly.

System: CPU AMD 7800x3d, GPU AMD 7800xt, RAM 32 GB 6000, Samsung SSD Nvme.2 970 1TB

I´m new to VR and i´m kind of lost finding a solution.

Is the GPU driver updated?

24 minutes ago, Dogmanbird said:

gave 'normal' another try. I think it helps the MFD text readability ever so slightly, though I still prefer the look of 'quality' overall

I find the biggest difference is outside the cockpit, with the distance objects being much sharper (and more aliased). 

[Mr Wave Off]

vor 53 Minuten schrieb Hoirtel:

Is the GPU driver updated?

I find the biggest difference is outside the cockpit, with the distance objects being much sharper (and more aliased). 

Yep the driver is up to date.

[Th3ChosenOn3]

9 hours ago, Mr Wave Off said:

I have problems starting DCS World via Virtual Desktop Beta with AV1 codec on Meta Quest 3. Q3 is connected via wifi 6 to PC (virtual desktop streamer beta), i don´t have openxr toolkit, steamvr installed and don´t use Oculus app.

Launching the game via virtual desktop streamer.

PC launches the game but my Headsets turns black and music is played from virtual desktop  which it just does when it´s disconnected.

2 times i made it into DCS Main Menu but as soon as i wanted to start free flight the same happened.

1 time i made it in with AV1 and could start free flight but when i went back to main menu and wanted to start new free flight it happened again.

Have to close game on PC and virtual desktop via meta desktop and also close desktop streamer on pc and kill background process of VD and VDS in taskmanager (if i don´t do it and try to get into VD on Headset i´ll return to black screen with music no menu etc pp).

I don´t know what´s the problem with AV1 codec as with HVEC 264+ i don´t have this issue, it works properly.

System: CPU AMD 7800x3d, GPU AMD 7800xt, RAM 32 GB 6000, Samsung SSD Nvme.2 970 1TB

I´m new to VR and i´m kind of lost finding a solution.

I think you're running into the same issues that I and a few other 7900 XTX owners are experiencing with Virtual Desktop. Virtual Desktop seems to have a bug at the moment when you use VDXR and the H.265/AV1 Codec on DCS World. You can get it working by using H.264 but even at 400 mbps it won't look as good as using the oculus app at the moment. Not sure if they're working on a fix or when it might get resolved, so might be best to try out the oculus app in the meantime.

Follow this guide, and you should get to a good starting point with the oculus app: