Another Orion 2 Disconnect Thread

[mmike87]

I purchased an Orion 2 F-16EX stick and Throttle after watching many Youtube reviews and reading online. Somehow I missed the "disconnect" stories, but regardless, I ended up with a defective unit.

First, the good. The physical quality of both the stick and throttle seem pretty solid. They both have a good feel. The software, while a little clunky, does what I need it to do. I like how the stick has upgraded the basic momentary switches to be 4-way switches, such as the missile select button. I use this button not only as MS but also for zooming the HSD in and out, and cycling through steer points. Love it!

The set I purchased included the shake kit as well as the finger-lift and detent kit. The instructions were not the greatest, but there were enough and I was able to assemble the unit without issue. For the first couple of days, it seemed fine. Every now and then, it would seem that I would encounter random button presses. At first, I thought I was simply fat-fingering buttons while flying and not realizing it, so I wrote it off as a user error.

But, the problem progressed and became more frequent. I noticed in SimAppPro that, when moving the stick, the shake kit would appear and disappear in the app, as if it were disconnecting. And, the shake kit buttons, and sometimes buttons on the main stick, would randomly show as pressed while moving the stick, even barely and slowly. 

And, during DCS flights, I started to hear in my VR headset the USB disconnect sound, and I lose flight control for 2-3 seconds. Sometimes I can fly for an hour with no issues. Other times, I'll experience back-to-back, repeated disconnections that cause me to crash or get shot down, which stinks after prepping for the flight. A few times, the stick even refused to come back and had to be unplugged physically. 

On a hunch, I removed the shake kit and the problem seemed fine for several days. No issues. And, then they started again. Given the intermittent nature of the issues, it became difficult to say what helped and what didn't make a difference. 

I contacted Winwing support through their ticket system. They responded promptly and over the course of several days of back and forth, they provided some troubleshooting steps which I followed. I have sent logs of the disconnects in SimAppPro as well as videos of the shake kit dropping in and out. They provided a series of diagnostic steps that I followed. 

In all I have tried:

• Disconnecting the shake kit and re-connecting multiple times
• Replacing the shake kit wire with the replacements included in my original order (three of them, tried all three)
• Removing and re-seating the DIN plug that connects the stick to the base, many times
• Provided logs and videos
• Opening the handle and base and re-seating all the connectors
• WinWing sent replacement wires for the stick and the base. The stick wire was easy to do, but the base wire required a complete disassembly  that was involved enough where IMO it's beyond what a company should reasonably expect an end-user to do
• At their suggestion, I disconnected the stick and flew around just using the base for about 15 or 20 minutes, during which I did NOT experience any disconnections. But, the problem is intermittent, so it's hard to say.
• I am running the stick on a powered USB hub. At their suggestion, I bought a new USB cable and tried that. I also tried plugging into USB 3.2 Gen 1 and 2 ports directly on the motherboard. No dice. 
• I have held the unit upside down while standing on one foot and looking to the west ... and still experienced disconnections

I have been going back and forth with Winwing for a solid month now. This is not a cheap device, and I am entitled (yes, ENTITLED) to a working unit that I paid for. I have asked Winwing to send me a replacement stick and a return label for the defective unit, and they did not respond today. I ordered a Thrustmaster stick and magnetic base that will arrive today that I'll use in the meantime, but I really want this stick to work, as the features and extra HOTAS controls IMO are perfect for VR where it's harder to use the keyboard.

The Throttle, so far has been perfect. My only criticism is that the detent/finger lift is plastic, and I think after enough afterburner push-throughs it's going to eventually break. But, so far it's been fine. 

If I don't get some help soon, I'll open a dispute with PayPal and/or my bank. I don't want to do that - I like the stick and I just want one that works. I have been patient. A month of troubleshooting is patient by any sane person's definition. This is NOT a "language issue" like others in some threads have suggested. They understand it's not working, I'm sure. And, given I'm not the only one, I suspect they know what the issue is, as I am willing to bet they are all similar. I do not believe this is a wire or physical connection issue either - the disconnects happen with the SLIGHTEST movement of the stick, very slowly. It doesn't happen more with harder turns, etc. as I would logically expect a greater stick deflection in one or more directions to aggravate a physical connection issue. 

Has anyone been successful in resolving Orion 2 disconnection issues?

Thanks, and sorry for the long story. This is very frustrating. 

EDIT: Just received another message that they are going to "contact the engineer" and get back to me. Again. It's been a month, and I am not willing to swap out circuit boards or take the unit apart, again. Ugh!

Edited June 12, 2023 by mmike87

[mmike87]

They want me to send it back, at my expense. It's going to be nearly $100 to ship it back according to the USPS estimator. This has been a terrible customer experience and I won't buy from this company again. 

[mmike87]

Shipped the WW stick back to China today, for $99 and change. The only good news is that my TM F-16 base and stick are here.

Initial impressions - the TM F-16 stick doesn't have the flexibility of all the buttons that the WW has. For example, the WW Missile Select button is also a 4-way switch, and mapped those to zoom the HSD in and out and inc/dec steer points. I moved that functionality to the countermeasure switch with a modifier key (left control) that I can easily locate with a VR headset on.

The TM stick seems heavier-duty - I feel like I could bludgeon someone to death with it if need be. The magnetic base is, OK. VERY different feel from the WW base, heavier for sure. It's smooth and feels well-built, but definitely, a different feel to get used to. That said, it works and the WW doesn't so I'll retrain myself on the TM, and probably burn some calories with the heavy stick, LOL. 

[Colonel Akir Nakesh]

Did you ship it back to China for a return or repair? 

[MustangSally]

You guys sure its not a PC problem?? I've got 2 Orion's, one with the F-18 grip and the other with the F-16ex. I swap them in and out depending on whether I fly heli's or the Hornet. Absolutely no issues

[Silver_]

17 hours ago, MustangSally said:

You guys sure its not a PC problem?? I've got 2 Orion's, one with the F-18 grip and the other with the F-16ex. I swap them in and out depending on whether I fly heli's or the Hornet. Absolutely no issues

Here too, without any failure and very happy with them. I have orion 2 and F16ex. These controls need a good USB power supply. I updated it to the latest firmware.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Silver_

[mmike87]

On 7/3/2023 at 8:39 PM, MustangSally said:

You guys sure its not a PC problem?? I've got 2 Orion's, one with the F-18 grip and the other with the F-16ex. I swap them in and out depending on whether I fly heli's or the Hornet. Absolutely no issues

I'm sure - I could see the behavior on my gaming PC and also my laptop as well. My laptop won't run DCS but I was able to duplicate in SimAppPro. I am also using a powered hub, tried several cables, directly to MB USB 3.2 ports, etc. And, everything else I own works fine. 

[mmike87]

UPDATE - I received my stick back from Winwing after paying $99 USD to ship it back. It was held in customs for about two weeks for reasons unknown. Once Winwing had it, they fixed it and shipped it back quickly and I received it quickly after they shipped it.

Everything seems to work now! After about two hours of flying and exercising the stick while watching in SimAppPro, I no longer see the USB disconnections, random button presses, or the frequent "drop out" of the "Shaker kit" that adds the two additional hats and controls the vibration.

I was waiting for it to come back, as the TM F-16 I was using in the meantime doesn't support a press on the castle switch which the F-15E controls seem to favor, and the WW does. 

I'm pleased the stick works, but I am not pleased with the four weeks of back-and-forth troubleshooting, $99 shipping, and also having to buy a TM F-16 stick and base to have something to use in the meantime. Good to have a backup, but this was a painful process that IMO WW could have made much better. 

• After some initial troubleshooting, send me a new stick and a return label for the old one
• On receiving a new stick, I'd ship the defective one back
• If I don't ship it back, charge me

The above model is pretty common and reasonable. Forcing me to be without a product that costs several hundred dollars for an extended time frame, and making me pay nearly $100 to ship back something that arrived defective is absolutely unreasonable under any circumstance. It just is ... I have NEVER had to do that with any company, EVER. The troubleshooting process seemed like it was designed to just wear me down so I'd just buy another one or just accept the loss. Try this. Ok, take a video. Ok, try THIS now. Send a picture. Take it apart. Send a picture. Back and forth for weeks. 

WW claims that the cable in the base was too short or something, and was tugged on when moving the stick or whatnot. That is a pretty poor example of quality control, as cable length is pretty easy to verify, and frankly, if the stick applies pressure to the cable when moving it, that is concerning especially when this is the cable from the base connector to the board in the base, I believe. Two fixed ends. 

So, I like the stick a lot now that it's working - but I can't recommend WinWing if this is how they handle these issues. Add in the inconsistent quality control that seems pretty prevalent on forums, Reddit, etc. - makes this a tough sell. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by mmike87

[FZG_Immel]

3 hours ago, mmike87 said:

UPDATE - I received my stick back from Winwing after paying $99 USD to ship it back. It was held in customs for about two weeks for reasons unknown. Once Winwing had it, they fixed it and shipped it back quickly and I received it quickly after they shipped it.

Everything seems to work now! After about two hours of flying and exercising the stick while watching in SimAppPro, I no longer see the USB disconnections, random button presses, or the frequent "drop out" of the "Shaker kit" that adds the two additional hats and controls the vibration.

I was waiting for it to come back, as the TM F-16 I was using in the meantime doesn't support a press on the castle switch which the F-15E controls seem to favor, and the WW does. 

I'm pleased the stick works, but I am not pleased with the four weeks of back-and-forth troubleshooting, $99 shipping, and also having to buy a TM F-16 stick and base to have something to use in the meantime. Good to have a backup, but this was a painful process that IMO WW could have made much better. 

• After some initial troubleshooting, send me a new stick and a return label for the old one
• On receiving a new stick, I'd ship the defective one back
• If I don't ship it back, charge me

The above model is pretty common and reasonable. Forcing me to be without a product that costs several hundred dollars for an extended time frame, and making me pay nearly $100 to ship back something that arrived defective is absolutely unreasonable under any circumstance. It just is ... I have NEVER had to do that with any company, EVER. The troubleshooting process seemed like it was designed to just wear me down so I'd just buy another one or just accept the loss. Try this. Ok, take a video. Ok, try THIS now. Send a picture. Take it apart. Send a picture. Back and forth for weeks. 

WW claims that the cable in the base was too short or something, and was tugged on when moving the stick or whatnot. That is a pretty poor example of quality control, as cable length is pretty easy to verify, and frankly, if the stick applies pressure to the cable when moving it, that is concerning especially when this is the cable from the base connector to the board in the base, I believe. Two fixed ends. 

So, I like the stick a lot now that it's working - but I can't recommend WinWing if this is how they handle these issues. Add in the inconsistent quality control that seems pretty prevalent on forums, Reddit, etc. - makes this a tough sell. 

 

fully agree with you. not acceptable

[Percival]

Well I had same issue. But theirs custommer support is really a pain in ....  Sent videos videos, pictures, etc. Poor quality control, in my case those cables at base use to move when I move the stick, so is very difficult to keep those in plase, connector pin moves a lot, so random disconnections when rolling (x axis).  Another issues is simapp app, I had to roll back to 1.7.32 version, I try my stick on a frind's PC and everithimng ok i Tried his Stick on mi pc and we get the same issue, so I decided to roll back to the version he was using and I would say that no software issues for now, but 1 time a month I need to check for those cables , anyway this is anoying because I varely use it, and when I started to using again the spring broke (same issue as others on this forum) I had to pay for the spring an shipping because I warranty time past, but 2 month I could'nt fly because of the cables issue.....

So I am back on my Thrustmaster F16 stick. winwing they need to fix this and most important take care of the people that trust in them, this is a expensive stick and they should cover every single dolar needed to fix it.

 

They sent me this file attached to fix it, but every answer took about one day so we were talking mora than a month. 

 

Ok please confirm cables are secured...please send me a video... please confirm this issue was solved..please confirm usb is plugged...blablabla. they do this on purpose

I bought 2 sticks and 2 hotas, my friend is getting the same crap. So we actually bought a couple of springs just in case and other 2 guys asked to get a couple as well, so at the end we the custommers share the shipping value.

 

Documment attached in case anyone would like to try before call them and wait an eternity for an answer

Winwing F16 repairs.docx

[mmike87]

Update: So far, the stick is working great and as it should have originally. 

[bpremus]

My F16EX was also disconnecting, customer support is useless, and took them one to two days to reply at each of my messages. Even though i send videos and stated right away what i have tried, like replacing usb cable, first reply was can you change the usb cable and try again and is the light on... 

Disconnect was happening when pulling the stick all the way back, you could noticed also some button press, vibration motor would stop etc. 

Pinpointed the issue to ps2 port for the grip on the base part, if you disconnect the grip and move the base around its working as designed. I would say the problem is most likely in base part of the cable when its moving. 

As a quick fix I simply 3d printed a small washer like ring that holds the cable in place and push it down. I would say this fixed 95% of the disconnects, so the next obvious step would be to replace the cable. I would probably make cable myself, even thou winwing offered to "sell" me both upper and lower part... 

[Simulatu]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:40 PM, bpremus said:

My F16EX was also disconnecting, customer support is useless, and took them one to two days to reply at each of my messages. Even though i send videos and stated right away what i have tried, like replacing usb cable, first reply was can you change the usb cable and try again and is the light on... 

Disconnect was happening when pulling the stick all the way back, you could noticed also some button press, vibration motor would stop etc. 

Pinpointed the issue to ps2 port for the grip on the base part, if you disconnect the grip and move the base around its working as designed. I would say the problem is most likely in base part of the cable when its moving. 

As a quick fix I simply 3d printed a small washer like ring that holds the cable in place and push it down. I would say this fixed 95% of the disconnects, so the next obvious step would be to replace the cable. I would probably make cable myself, even thou winwing offered to "sell" me both upper and lower part... 

Would you be kind to post the 3D model file for the washer?

[bpremus]

Sure, I have attached a 3D model,
some additional info,
When you add a plastic washer, the screw and hole will probably not align ( depend on a printer, the thin plate should be lower for ~0.1mm in my case, you can sand it down that if you want ) so i did not put back the small screw as friction with washer was holding the grip quite nicely form twisting.

I am 99% confident that cable is to blame in the bottom part of winwing base where female connector is. I would also suggest to open bottom cover and just press all connectors with a finger and push cables a bit toward inside (so there is more cable under connector). 
 

CE3E3V2_WinWingWasher v5.zip

Edited January 8 by bpremus

[Brainfreeze]

Got the same disconnect issues with my Orion2 + F15EX throttle ...  I dread going through their appalling customer support...