GBU 10 issue

[aphill]

I seem to have an intermittent problem with the GBU 10 and 12 but not the 24s.

I can drop them and the laser fires but sometimes the bombs don't pick up the laser. Like I said it doesn't happen every time but probably 50% of the time. The Paveways work every time.

Of course it could be something I am missing.

F-15 GBU miss.trk

[strikeeagle]

1 hour ago, aphill said:

I seem to have an intermittent problem with the GBU 10 and 12 but not the 24s.

I can drop them and the laser fires but sometimes the bombs don't pick up the laser. Like I said it doesn't happen every time but probably 50% of the time. The Paveways work every time.

Of course it could be something I am missing.

F-15 GBU miss.trk 1.45 MB · 1 download

Does the TGT pod and bomb laser code match?

[Skipz]

I am having the same issues running a Liberation campain.  When I first got the F-15E did test with the mission editior with static & moving targets with 0 weather and bombs seemed to hit with the 12's most of the time.  When I ran the liberation campain the laser codes matched, laser armed, laser fired durning drops at about 15k to 19k drop and GBU-10's wouldn't track.  Out of 4 bombs I had 1 or 2 hit on two seperate occations.  I'll try with the 24's under the same scenario.

[aphill]

11 hours ago, strikeeagle said:

Does the TGT pod and bomb laser code match?

Yes they do.

[aphill]

I think its a bug to be honest. I'm sure it will be addressed at some point if it is. Meanwhile I use Paveways.

[LazyBoot]

6 hours ago, aphill said:

I think its a bug to be honest. I'm sure it will be addressed at some point if it is. Meanwhile I use Paveways.

GBU-10, 12, etc are also Paveways (Paveway II, if you want to get really pedantic)

[lxsapper]

I was encountering this myself yesterday, but I think the reason it happens is because with the GBU-10 the bomb drop steering cue is way off to the right or left of target sometimes, so the bomb is way off to the side and doesn't see the laser.

[av8orDave]

2 hours ago, lxsapper said:

I was encountering this myself yesterday, but I think the reason it happens is because with the GBU-10 the bomb drop steering cue is way off to the right or left of target sometimes, so the bomb is way off to the side and doesn't see the laser.

Agreed. I'm no longer using GBU-10s as a result. I've noticed it most often when also having a mixed load of GBU-12s and 10s, although I think I've seen this when carrying only 10s as well.

[aphill]

Here is what I have found for dropping GBUs from the front seat. Apparently the issue doesn't exist from the rear seat.

Keep about a 5 degree nose down attitude just before dropping them.

Keep the nose pointed at the target. Don't worry so much  about keeping the ASL centered. (make sure the nose of the AC is in line with the target) The nose down attitude is the most important part.

[WizzRD]

3 hours ago, aphill said:

Keep about a 5 degree nose down attitude just before dropping them.

Keep the nose pointed at the target. Don't worry so much  about keeping the ASL centered. (make sure the nose of the AC is in line with the target) The nose down attitude is the most important part.

I have no problems dropping the GBU´s straight & level.

Video is pre-patch but still valid (just tested).

 

[aphill]

I have had that work for me as well, sometimes, just is intermittent for me.

Are you targeting them from the WSO seat?

[WizzRD]

1 hour ago, aphill said:

I have had that work for me as well, sometimes, just is intermittent for me.

Are you targeting them from the WSO seat?

It´s all pilot seat.

[Bosun]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:52 PM, WizzRD said:

I have no problems dropping the GBU´s straight & level.

Video is pre-patch but still valid (just tested).

 

 

I can also get results like that, but then, at times, I also get results like this:
 

 

[WizzRD]

6 hours ago, Bosun said:

I can also get results like that, but then, at times, I also get results like this:

At 1:40 or so you hit "designate" again, even tho you had a very nice designation already, and the designation did wander off. This happens to me sometimes as well; then I just designate again (sometimes more than once, until I get a ASL that makes sense.

So, once you have a designation that looks good don´t designate again. You can still make fine adjustments even with the bomb already underway.

[Bosun]

5 hours ago, WizzRD said:

At 1:40 or so you hit "designate" again, even tho you had a very nice designation already, and the designation did wander off. This happens to me sometimes as well; then I just designate again (sometimes more than once, until I get a ASL that makes sense.

So, once you have a designation that looks good don´t designate again. You can still make fine adjustments even with the bomb already underway.

Hm, so if I understand this correctly - redesignating will effectively null the bomb tracking?

Because I've done that before with no issue. 

Also - my understand is that, without CDES boxed, the original coordinates should hold for the designation despite the cursor wandering - and yet, I have several examples of the opposite, including this one, where the cursor wanders, only the bomb will actually hit and will hit within the cursor deadeye, as it has wandered off the original des, despite CDES being unboxed. 


Really - the long and short of using the TPOD at the moment for GBUs is that I cannot establish a pattern of behavior for the TPOD by which to obtain predictable results, despite following set procedures.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Bosun

[Sprool]

I agree with Bosun, I think WizzRD is barking up the wrong tree. The fall-line problem is specifically when switching to the GBU10's whether or not you redesignate. It has to be a bug - the other GBU's work fine with no problem, totally predictable behaviour. With GBU10's the fall line can be 1/4 mile off even when the HUD cursor is sitting on the target. No wonder they dont pick up on the laser.

[WizzRD]

10 hours ago, Bosun said:

Hm, so if I understand this correctly - redesignating will effectively null the bomb tracking?
...

Really - the long and short of using the TPOD at the moment for GBUs is that I cannot establish a pattern of behavior for the TPOD by which to obtain predictable results, despite following set procedures.

Redesignating *can* screw up your designation - easy to spot when you see your ASL suddenly pointing in the wrong direction. Bug, quirk, feature, whatever you want to call it, it´s also easy enough to correct by simply clicking the designate button again until you see something that makes sense.

Set procedures don´t always work as they are supposed to do, adapt and overcome.

7 hours ago, Sprool said:

I agree with Bosun, I think WizzRD is barking up the wrong tree. The fall-line problem is specifically when switching to the GBU10's whether or not you redesignate. It has to be a bug - the other GBU's work fine with no problem, totally predictable behaviour. With GBU10's the fall line can be 1/4 mile off even when the HUD cursor is sitting on the target. No wonder they dont pick up on the laser.

I´m not saying it´s not a bug.

I just told you what happend and how to make it work even tho it´s not *correct as is*. I can drop GBU-10´s and 12´s left and right with no issues and so could you.

 

[Sprool]

Your work-round doesnt work for me. I think you just got lucky. The bug is not consistent, I'd say 70-80% of the time I get an issue. I tried different combinations if slewing and designating. If you can get it to function correctly as a work around till they get the bug fixed then you are more fortunate than me!

I also noticed in a self-made mission with an F-15e already configured with GBU10's and GBU12's, the 10's consistently fail to show up in the armament screen, but all the other ordnance shows up correctly. So you have to go back into A/G and identify the GBU10's that the pylon hasnt recognised. Not a big problem but it identifies that something is not working consistently re loadout and it points again to the GBU10's.

[LazyBoot]

15 hours ago, Bosun said:

Also - my understand is that, without CDES boxed, the original coordinates should hold for the designation despite the cursor wandering - and yet, I have several examples of the opposite, including this one, where the cursor wanders, only the bomb will actually hit and will hit within the cursor deadeye, as it has wandered off the original des, despite CDES being unboxed. 

The laser will always follow where the camera is looking. So the bomb should follow where the pod is looking, assuming it was released somewhere it can see the laser spot.

[Bosun]

8 hours ago, WizzRD said:

 

I can drop GBU-10´s and 12´s left and right with no issues and so could you.

 

Except I cannot.  I still have yet to have someone tell me what, exactly, I did in that video that netted my bomb to not even track.  So, I cannot drop without issues, and that's what I'd like to troubleshoot. 

It sometimes not working, is not good enough. We need to boil down why it does not sometimes, so that we can start to adapt and overcome.  If it's random, adapting doesn't really work, as you've got no starting point to adapt from. 

[Sprool]

I followed a hunch last night to test further - I think I found my problem. In mission editor I have a sandbox rtainiing mission where I add aircraft & different payloads to learn weapon delivery. If I change loadout before flying the mission there seems some interference from the original loadout I entererd when I created then saved the mission. For example, originally I have an F-15e with GBU12's and CBU97's. I then went into the mission and changed loadout to GBU12's and GBU10's, removing the CBU97's but when flying, the aircraft armament still thinks CBU97's are loaded in and when I switch the the prog I set up with GBU10's the drop line is way way off target. GBU12's seemed ok - the mission was originally set up with them anyway.

If I delete the aircraft and set up a new one with mixed GBU loadout, the problem seems to be cured - when switching between GBU10 and GBU12 the drop line remains on designated target.