F-15E SEAD Tactics

[Whiskey11]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:58 PM, notproplayer3 said:

I think you should just fly low and pop up at the last moment, then drop your bombs (on the search radar).

The sa 2 is easy to fight as it's minimum engagement range is pretty large if I remember correctly and it doesn't track if you're low.

 

You want to take out the track radar, not the search radar... doesn't matter if it can see you if it can't engage you... but the lack of a search radar does not prevent them from shooting at you, just reduces the chances of you being detected in the first place. 

Knowing which is which is a part of good SEAD/DEAD operations.  I have a kneeboard for that!

In general, DEAD tactics require good SAM engagement envelop knowledge.  The SA-10B we have in DCS world has a minimum engagement altitude of 50ft above the height of the terrain the clam shell search radar is mounted upon (so 50 feet above the height of the SAM site's altitude, basically).  Not a lot of room to work with there without terrain masking to accomplish the goal.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Whiskey11

[YoYo]

7 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

You want to take out the track radar, not the search radar... doesn't matter if it can see you if it can't engage you... but the lack of a search radar does not prevent them from shooting at you, just reduces the chances of you being detected in the first place. 

Knowing which is which is a part of good SEAD/DEAD operations.  I have a kneeboard for that!

In general, DEAD tactics require good SAM engagement envelop knowledge.  The SA-10B we have in DCS world has a minimum engagement altitude of 50ft above the height of the terrain the clam shell search radar is mounted upon (so 50 feet above the height of the SAM site's altitude, basically).  Not a lot of room to work with there without terrain masking to accomplish the goal.

 

I checked your guide now, nice work! Thx for this .

[YoYo]

16 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

You want to take out the track radar, not the search radar... doesn't matter if it can see you if it can't engage you... but the lack of a search radar does not prevent them from shooting at you, just reduces the chances of you being detected in the first place. 

Knowing which is which is a part of good SEAD/DEAD operations.  I have a kneeboard for that!

In general, DEAD tactics require good SAM engagement envelop knowledge.  The SA-10B we have in DCS world has a minimum engagement altitude of 50ft above the height of the terrain the clam shell search radar is mounted upon (so 50 feet above the height of the SAM site's altitude, basically).  Not a lot of room to work with there without terrain masking to accomplish the goal.

 

bw. in fact, it would be good to have information in the kneeboard of all TEWS threat symbols in the F-15E. At the end of manual we have all symbols. Just idea ;).

Edited August 7, 2023 by YoYo

[Whiskey11]

15 hours ago, YoYo said:

bw. in fact, it would be good to have information in the kneeboard of all TEWS threat symbols in the F-15E. At the end of manual we have all symbols. Just idea ;).

 

The original guide was intended to be fore the F-16 and F/A-18C... in later versions I may add that info in, but it's pretty low priority at the moment!

[Holbeach]

My method for taking out the tracking radar, in this case SA3 site.

12 CBU 97.

Sea level approach. PoP Up to 900'AGL. CDIP. Back to Sea Level.

 

 

 

Tracking Radar removed.

 

..

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, Holbeach said:

My method for taking out the tracking radar, in this case SA3 site.

12 CBU 97.

Sea level approach. PoP Up to 900'AGL. CDIP. Back to Sea Level.

 

 

 

Tracking Radar removed.

 

..

Yes, its a lot of fun, however I prefer TOSS bombing. F-15E is pretty well for DEAD missions.

[Holbeach]

5 hours ago, YoYo said:

Yes, its a lot of fun, however I prefer TOSS bombing. F-15E is pretty well for DEAD missions.

Toss, Pop Up, or Low level, using slicks, CBU's or Rockeye's, the SAM defences have given no real opposition to low level DEAD missions against this airfield, from my F-15.

Protecting this airfield are:- 2 SA3, SA6, SA10, SA11, SA13 and numerous AAA.

The biggest danger was from the SA13, which chucked a couple of missiles at me, but the deadliest is from AAA.

If you go in L/L, all of these are defeated.

OK lets press on. Add manpads and SA15.

..

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, Holbeach said:

Toss, Pop Up, or Low level, using slicks, CBU's or Rockeye's, the SAM defences have given no real opposition to low level DEAD missions against this airfield, from my F-15.

Protecting this airfield are:- 2 SA3, SA6, SA10, SA11, SA13 and numerous AAA.

The biggest danger was from the SA13, which chucked a couple of missiles at me, but the deadliest is from AAA.

If you go in L/L, all of these are defeated.

OK lets press on. Add manpads and SA15.

..

For each my training Im adding 1x manpad (Igla) and ZSU-23 on the track. More fun ;). The SAM station itself is relatively quite easy to destroy, so there is more adrenaline. 

This is the video I'm also based on and it works fine.

and this is good series (infos) too about units (the whole playlist):

Edited August 8, 2023 by YoYo

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, Holbeach said:

 Pop Up,..

I'm practicing pop up now. What works best for you?

- distance to target of changing the path and speed (entry to action point)

- distance to adding altitude (pull up point) (to which level?), speed and angle

Edited August 8, 2023 by YoYo

[JB3DG]

If you can go low enough to pop up and destroy the medium range stuff and get back down before Tors and MANPADS and AAA can fire back, they become totally irrelevant and can be picked off from high altitude with LGBs.

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, JB3DG said:

If you can go low enough to pop up and destroy the medium range stuff and get back down before Tors and MANPADS and AAA can fire back, they become totally irrelevant and can be picked off from high altitude with LGBs.

Wow , no, its not so easy like you wrote, I suppose that DCS isnt War Thunder . 

There's present special procedure to avoid maximum threats (btw. different for each plane). According my experiance, Eagle E is too heavy to do proper procedure for good and safety pop up with avoiding all dangers (it's worth recalling that SAM sites are rarely just SAM, they are also defended by AAA and infrared missiles), is not too maneuverable (like typical fighter) and during set up after reaching altitude and after the fast turn the nose isnt stabilized for few seconds which makes aiming difficult. In this few seconds enemy can shot you by AAA or IR for example. So Im interested your datas to work out the best method for pop up attack. The biggest problem during pop up is to avoid AAA, IR can be danger but flares work ok agains Igla. In the whole proces I have effectiveness 50% where for toss I have 90-100%.

Edited August 9, 2023 by YoYo

[bfr]

23 hours ago, Holbeach said:

My method for taking out the tracking radar, in this case SA3 site.

12 CBU 97.

Sea level approach. PoP Up to 900'AGL. CDIP. Back to Sea Level.

 

 

 

Tracking Radar removed.

 

..

Yes, 97s in quantity are certainly pretty 'thorough'. 

[Holbeach]

No Text with pictures.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Holbeach
No Text.

[Holbeach]

18 hours ago, YoYo said:

I'm practicing pop up now. What works best for you?

- distance to target of changing the path and speed (entry to action point)

- distance to adding altitude (pull up point) (to which level?), speed and angle

 

I've been using Weapons Delivery Manual, by Bunyap, for many years now.

 

Direct Popup.

 

 

 

Offset Popup.

 

 

Works well on Mig 15/21, F-86, Harrier and F-15e.

Use in CDIP, for unknown positions, where CCRP is not possible.

More risky when AAA and Manpads are about.

 

..

Edited August 9, 2023 by Holbeach

[YoYo]

49 minutes ago, Holbeach said:

I've been using Weapons Delivery Manual, by Bunyap, for many years now.

 

Direct Popup.

 

 

 

Offset Popup.

 

 

Works well on Mig 15/21, F-86, Harrier and F-15e.

Use in CDIP, for unknown positions, where CCRP is not possible.

More risky when AAA and Manpads are about.

 

..

 

That's what I meant, thanks !

[JB3DG]

9 hours ago, YoYo said:

Wow , no, its not so easy like you wrote, I suppose that DCS isnt War Thunder . 

There's present special procedure to avoid maximum threats (btw. different for each plane). According my experiance, Eagle E is too heavy to do proper procedure for good and safety pop up with avoiding all dangers (it's worth recalling that SAM sites are rarely just SAM, they are also defended by AAA and infrared missiles), is not too maneuverable (like typical fighter) and during set up after reaching altitude and after the fast turn the nose isnt stabilized for few seconds which makes aiming difficult. In this few seconds enemy can shot you by AAA or IR for example. So Im interested your datas to work out the best method for pop up attack. The biggest problem during pop up is to avoid AAA, IR can be danger but flares work ok agains Igla. In the whole proces I have effectiveness 50% where for toss I have 90-100%.

 

My bad, I mixed popup and toss.

[Holbeach]

Increased the SAM's to:

2 SAM 3, SAM 6, SAM 11, SAM 13, SAM 15, SAM 19, 4 Igla, and numerous AAA, about 10.

3 Igla and 2 SA 19 launched without hits.

Went round again at a higher level and a SA 19 scored a hit.

 

 

 

 

 

..

[YoYo]

Today I flew with my friend online (he was as a wizoo) against few SAMs on Sinai map. He warned me about the dangers, I maneuvered and was destroying SAM sites with pop up technique.

A lot of fun! Love it .

[Ignition]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:36 PM, Whiskey11 said:

You want to take out the track radar, not the search radar... doesn't matter if it can see you if it can't engage you... but the lack of a search radar does not prevent them from shooting at you, just reduces the chances of you being detected in the first place. 

Knowing which is which is a part of good SEAD/DEAD operations.  I have a kneeboard for that!

In general, DEAD tactics require good SAM engagement envelop knowledge.  The SA-10B we have in DCS world has a minimum engagement altitude of 50ft above the height of the terrain the clam shell search radar is mounted upon (so 50 feet above the height of the SAM site's altitude, basically).  Not a lot of room to work with there without terrain masking to accomplish the goal.

 

It's easier to destroy the search radars and it prevents them to know where's the enemy.

I usually go for the SR but sometimes for the TR (when using HARM). In the end every SAM unit is important even the rearm units.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Ignition

[YoYo]

Meanwhile... I think someone is listening to us  ... 

 

[Whiskey11]

On 8/9/2023 at 5:10 PM, Ignition said:

It's easier to destroy the search radars and it prevents them to know where's the enemy.

I usually go for the SR but sometimes for the TR (when using HARM). In the end every SAM unit is important even the rearm units.

 

 

As I pointed out, destroying the search radar is not a guaranteed way to make the site inoperative... an S-300's Flap Lid has a scan volume of approximately 110 degrees laterally and 80 degrees vertically.... Destroying the Big Bird (or Tin Shield, if ED ever fixes the S-300's possible search radars) is going to make it easier, but not that much easier.  It's still a substantial threat depending on where the Flap Lid is pointed.  Destroying the Flap Lid means the Big Bird, or Clam Shell, or whatever may see the strike package, but it can't do anything about it because the thing guiding the missiles is dead.

This is true of every SAM site in the game presently.  I'm also not sure, given the missions I've flown, that the search radar is any easier to destroy than anything else... a single CBU-105 in the middle of a S-300 will kill pretty much everything except the Big Bird and Clam Shell if the site is laid out like they are in real life.

[Holbeach]

The F15E can destroy any SAM site on this map, with CBU 97 at Low Level or Toss, but let's see what 4 F18 with HARM can do to help.

16 HARM shot at the Island resulted in all being shot down by SA10. F18 all killed during trying to re attacks.

Add 4 Harrier, 16 AGM 122 and things change.

With the SA10 out of ammo, the Harrier scored many hits, but the death rate was high during re attacks. SA10/15/19 also were able to shoot down AGM 122, which is new to me.

Add 8 more SA10, (2 vehicles), and my job is still to destroy the SA10 site, (Track Radar), before the SEAD group get there..

 

 

 

 

..

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Holbeach

[YoYo]

Next Notso’s video:

 

[YoYo]

I'm wondering if it's worth using the CBU-97 when attacking targets with TOSS technique. I don't know if it's a bug, but despite the correct marking of targets and the drop in auto mode, the boblets often fall much earlier, before the target, strange. Better results I have with LD bombs like series Mk.82.

[JB3DG]

11 hours ago, YoYo said:

I'm wondering if it's worth using the CBU-97 when attacking targets with TOSS technique. I don't know if it's a bug, but despite the correct marking of targets and the drop in auto mode, the boblets often fall much earlier, before the target, strange. Better results I have with LD bombs like series Mk.82.

I tend to eyeball aim a little beyond the target during my run in.