Starfall Modder DLSS in 5 day EA release

[Orwell]

Bethesda recently announced an exclusivity deal with AMD for Starfall FSR support.

 

Famous modder of Bethesda games said that within the window of the upcoming Starfall 5 day Early Access / Beta, he will code and implement DLSS3 and then add DLSS2 as well.

 

Why doesn't ED implement this for DCS as soon as possible? 

 

Say DLSS makes it possible for 3000 new users to run DCS. 

 

Say half of them buy a $69 module. 

Say half of those end up buying two modules.

Thats serious bank. 

Why not implement DLSS? 

[Archer.xd]

2023 & Beyond. (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

DLSS was announced here together with NIS

Edited July 15, 2023 by vtaf_archer

[Dr_Pavelheer]

Modern games are build in such a way integration of DLSS is fairly straightforward (you still have to put in some effort to make it look decent but for the most part it just works), DCS was designed before TAA was even a concept. First game I know of that uses TAA-esque solution is Crysis 2 from 2011, and it took a couple of years before it became widespread, and since DLSS requires game engine to generate and expose the same information that TAA needs DCS requires some rewrite to make it possible

[SkateZilla]

Why are we using time frames provided by another Dev Studio?

DCS is not Star Fall.

[cfrag]

On 7/15/2023 at 9:49 PM, Orwell said:

Bethesda recently announced an exclusivity deal with AMD for Starfall FSR support.

Please check your sources. I believe you mean "Starfield". That being said, although I'm very interested in the title itself, I'm not interested in vendor-specific variants. That sounds too much like a marketing ploy, designed to profit some partner, to the detriment of customers. Building a vendor dependency like this into your own title opens you up to problems. I learned that the hard way when I purchased a 3Dfx versions for Descent 2 and Shadow Warrior. Please let's not make a repeat of that.

 

On 7/15/2023 at 9:49 PM, Orwell said:

Famous modder of Bethesda games said that within the window of the upcoming Starfall 5 day Early Access / Beta, he will code and implement DLSS3 and then add DLSS2 as well.

The works of the community are an important piece in todays on-line ecology. Note that community work is distinct from a publisher's work. I also recommend being a bit more careful how to phrase the above, not stating as fact what is clearly an aspiration. Methinks a "Modders have voiced their intend to add DLSS to the game after release" would be a better statement. There are incredibly gifted people in the community. If they have the time and resources to do as they intend is another matter altogether.

14 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

DCS is not Star Fall.

I believe OP meant Starfield by Bethesda, not the 2020 title Star Fall by Snowforge.  But your main point is acute, I think. The individual requirements for a primarily earthbound FPS are markedly different to a primarily aerial combat sim. 

In addition, I think that DLSS and similar technologies should only be implemented after they are vendor-abstracted before they are brought into a title, and from what I read into the roadmap that you kindly linked to this is currently planned. What we don't need is a re-hash of nVidea's "Hair Works" (shudder). DLSS and FSR are currently promoted to sell their vendor's GPUs, not games. Unless ED receives lots of incentive (meaning: funding from either vendor) I think they have little impetus to hitch their fate to either company.

No matter what, I think it's going to be an interesting development. As a VR user, I'm very much interested in these technologies as they contain a good promise to get rid of the "shimmies" that can break immersion and strain my poor old eyes.

Edited July 17, 2023 by cfrag

[cfrag]

I'm not sure that the following is universally understood:

On 7/15/2023 at 9:49 PM, Orwell said:

Bethesda recently announced an exclusivity deal with AMD for Starfall FSR support.

Above means that Bethesda has received funding from AMD to produce a bespoke version ('exclusive') that supports AMD's FSR, and this deal may include a provision to not directly support competing technology (like NVidea's DLSS) for some time. The goal is that people who want to play Starfield and are looking to upgrade their hardware take a preference to AMD GPU, i.e. the 'exclusivity deal' is aimed at AMD selling more cards. It's not intended for Bethesda selling more game units, they already got paid by AMD. 

In other words, Bethesda did NOT add FSR to Starfield to make a better game. They did it because they got paid by AMD.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@cfrag FSR 2.0 is vendor agnostic, but if ED decides to implement one there is no real reason not to implement the other considering "all" is left to do is fine tuning. At least no technical reason, vide Starfield.

Considering ED has to implement some sort of TAA anyway since they switched to deferred rendering there is no reason not to go one step further and implement DLSS/FRS/XESS/all of the above as well which would provide superior results if you forego upscaling

[cfrag]

Just now, Dr_Pavelheer said:

if ED decides to implement one there is no real reason not to implement the other

I mostly agree, except for the possibility of code/testing complexity if this means that ED need to include two different SDK and conform to two different API. That could drive up testing requirements and cost. So there may be economic reasons to wait for a universal, non-vendor specific API. In the end, everything is a business decision, so I'm really looking forward to what ED decide on   

[SkateZilla]

My comment on DCS not being Starfield means that.

DCS World's GFX Engine was Designed before TAA and Motion Vectors,
Starfield's was designed from the bottom up over the last 2 years and Supports TAA and Motion Vector's natively.
So Enabling DLSS for Starfield, is a matter of enabling something that already has the code in place to function.

DCS World's DirectX11 Engine Predates TAA and Motion Vector's, and VR for that matter. Which is why it always seems like ED is Chasing an invisible barrier when it comes to features/support. Because they are, DirectX 11 was already horribly known to still have high CPU Overhead on draw calls, but a significant improvement over DirectX9C.

Users Forget, EDGE is already been Released for 8 Years and was in development for at least 8 before that.

Once the more modern Vulkan Engine is completed, it will have more things integrated at a core level making add-on features more easily developed..

 

ps but as far as DLSS being a deciding factor on if 3000 new users can run DCS with it, vs without it, is extremely farfetched,
DLSS is not a magic FPS, Make a game that was unplayable on the RTX Potato Rig, Playable Pill.
If they cant run DCS without DLSS, then they arent gonna run it with DLSS, DLSS was Designed more to give 1440p, 4K 5K+ Users the ability to render games at lower resolutions and upsample, because rendering at 1080p/1440p provides enough pixels and motion vectors to upscale to a cleaner image, TV Scalar Processors in Samsung and LG TV's have been doing it for a decade. DLSS on a 1080P Screen wont do diddly but give you a blurred mess, as your rendering less than 720P and Upsampling it w/ 1/4 of the Pixels and Motion vector data you would normally need. You remember what your 640x480i cable looked like on that new 1080p screen right... lol.

pps.. the DLSS Interface and References are already in the Starfield Build I had a Week ago, so the dev isn't adding something in a matter of days, it was already in the engine, it was just disabled.

Edited July 18, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Hiob]

...and it is yet to see, how DLSS handles the fine distinct lines that comes with a flight simulator and especially the spotting of enemy aircrafts (single dots anyone?).

Don't get me wrong. I'm curious af and can't wait to see DLSS in DCS, but I'm wondering how it will play out.