reported AI aircraft have unlimited flares

[Snappy]

Hi,

see attached track files.AI aircraft (examples here F16 Blk50 and F18Lot20) have unlimited flares. In the track they dropped over a 100 pairs of flares each and showed no sign of stopping when I stopped recording. 

Also worse, aircraft like the VIggen, which actually need to carry a dedicated countermeasure pod to drop flares, are able to drop flares when completely clean without pod as AI version. (see attached track),

Mission file also attached in case it is needed to play back the tracks.

FlaresViggen.trk M2000cAir2Air.miz 130plusFlaresF18.trk 130plusFlaresF16.trk

[Snappy]

Ok , kindly let me know how many flares releases exactly the AI needs to perform in a track for you to accept this as an issue? Serious question, so I can upload a new track.

 

I wasn’t making this up and the tracks do show already a very high number of releases.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Snappy

[Flappie]

Hi Snappy. The Viggen/MiG-21 bug is already reported internally.

I've just tested the following aircraft and patiently counted the flares. All tested aircraft use the right amount of flares, not one more.

• M-2000C (64 flares)
• F-16C (60 flares)
• F/A-18C (60 flares)
• C-130 (60 flares)
• even the AJS37 uses the amount of flares it would have if carrying its KB pod.

What you witnessed is caused by this:

Since countermeasures are considered as weapons in the mission editor, ticking this box enabled infinite countermeasures.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Flappie

[Snappy]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:54 PM, Flappie said:

Hi Snappy. The Viggen/MiG-21 bug is already reported internally.

I've just tested the following aircraft and patiently counted the flares. All tested aircraft use the right amount of flares, not one more.

• M-2000C (64 flares)
• F-16C (60 flares)
• F/A-18C (60 flares)
• C-130 (60 flares)
• even the AJS37 uses the amount of flares it would have if carrying its KB pod.

What you witnessed is caused by this:

Since countermeasures are considered as weapons in the mission editor, ticking this box enabled infinite countermeasures.

 

 

Hi Flappie, thank you very much for getting back to me on this. I’m away from home at the moment, so I can’t check in DCS whether this is the reason or not in the options for the example mission.

But it is possible.

Still I find it unlogical and counter-intuitive to label and include chaff&flares as „weapons“ , since they are really not.

I recommend either renaming this option into „weapons&countermeasures“ or creating a new separate option for “expendable countermeasures & decoys“ .

But thank you for your reply&explanation. I appreciate it very much 

Kind regards,

Snappy 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Snappy

[Flappie]

I agree it's not obvious. I'll see what I can do.

[Flappie]

@Snappy Hold on a minute: it just occurs to me that the player does not have unlimited countermeasures. Only IA units do. I'll report this and we'll find ou what devs consider normal: either nobody will get unlimited CMs, or everybody will.

[Dragon1-1]

I'll throw in another track with the MiG-21. Now, this training mission has unlimited weapons, sure. However, the MiG-21s have no flare buckets fitted. That doesn't stop them from spamming flares. I understand that someone might want unlimited expandables, but in this case, they are not equipped at all. It's probably another instance of the same issue, but either way, have another track. 

F5FlareWingbreak.trk

[Flappie]

Like I said earlier in this thread:

On 9/18/2023 at 11:54 PM, Flappie said:

Hi Snappy. The Viggen/MiG-21 bug is already reported internally.

 

[Milos]

On 9/23/2023 at 4:36 PM, Flappie said:

@Snappy Hold on a minute: it just occurs to me that the player does not have unlimited countermeasures. Only IA units do. I'll report this and we'll find ou what devs consider normal: either nobody will get unlimited CMs, or everybody will.

Yeah, this is really frustrating