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Why hasn't a bug in FM been fixed for more than 2 years?

Selliese

By Selliese
in Flight Dynamics

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Rudel_chw

Rudel_chw

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Selliese said:

https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.io/view.php?id=1139


I wouldn’t call that a bug, the report was made by F-5 multiplayer users trying to downgrade the Mig-21 simulated performance at low speeds, using extrapolated data since the performance curves of the real aircraft only reach down to M 0.5 … no wonder the developer gave the report very little priority. Users that fly the aircraft on a realistic way never would encounter this "bug".

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Selliese

Selliese

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Posted
21 минуту назад, Rudel_chw сказал:

real aircraft only reach down to M 0.5

In bugtrecker has a German chart with a lower bound of 0.4M, which confirms that the extrapolation is correct.

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Smyth

Smyth

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:


I wouldn’t call that a bug, the report was made by F-5 multiplayer users trying to downgrade the Mig-21 simulated performance at low speeds, using extrapolated data since the performance curves of the real aircraft only reach down to M 0.5 … no wonder the developer gave the report very little priority. Users that fly the aircraft on a realistic way never would encounter this "bug".

Sorry to fan the flames here, but it isn't helpful to dismiss problems with the DCS Mig-21 module's flight performance as "bluefor asking for a nerf to compensate their skill issue". This can and should be addressed as a technical question.

The DCS Mig-21bis module currently has a sustained turn rate that increases down to its stall speed. That is not how any supersonic turbojet fighter performs, for fundamental physical reasons. In other words this bug isn't actually a question of realism, it is a question of physical plausibility. The real world data is only illustrating that.

The graph in the bug report is not the best illustration. Here is a different view, comparing directly to the turn rate plots from the original Soviet technical manual. No extrapolation of any kind, and none needed because the divergence from reality and plausibility is fully evident at any speed below M0.6. The real aircraft is losing turn rate while the DCS version is speeding up. No other module in DCS does this, let alone any aircraft in real life.

image.png

If you believe the Mig-21 flight model is not broken, please present a technical argument that its behavior is plausible and not ad-hominem attacks against those who notice something is wrong.

I for one have zero interest in the F-5, and lots of interest in the Mig-21... the real aircraft anyway. The moment the FM bugs are mitigated I will buy it. Until then, not a chance.

Edited by Smyth
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Rudel_chw

Rudel_chw

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Smyth said:

please present a technical argument that its behavior is plausible and not ad-hominem attacks against those who notice something is wrong.


I just gave my view, that this is not a bug .. wonder how you could perceive it as an attack? 🙄
 

I haven’t flew the -21 in quite a while, but I don’t remember dogfighting with it at less than M 0.5

 

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Smyth

Smyth

Posted
Posted

So... I know I should have left out that request, but it actually wasn't a rhetorical question, or meant turn into a joke like this.

If anyone has evidence of a supersonic turbojet turning best at minimum speed, or perhaps has testing in game that shows the DCS Mig-21 doesn't do this, I really truthfully want to know.

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Selliese

Selliese

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Posted (edited)

Similar problem was on the M2000, after many years it was fixed.

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2132.png

Edited by Selliese
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  • 1 month later...
Kobymaru

Kobymaru

Posted
Posted (edited)
Quote

 Why hasn't a bug in FM been fixed for more than 2 years?

Because the module has been effectively abandoned for several years. It only receives the most basic fixes to keep up with DCS and new maps, if that.

And before people give me the whole story about how they're busy with Corsair and it's TOTALLY not abandoned, I will admit being wrong the second they release fixes or improvements for any of the many bugs in the Bug Tracker or the Bug forum. But you can just take a look at the age of the reports/threads and the lack of patch and/or response that they're not actually working on this module. Or you know, just point to ANY significant improvement to the FM, Systems, Gunsight, Cockpit, or anything besides "fixed crash" or "added RSBN channels for XYZ map" in the last 5 years.

Edited by Kobymaru
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Schmidtfire

Schmidtfire

Posted
Posted

Look at this this way. How fun does it sound to upkeep an 9 year old module? Remember they do not make their living out of this, it needs to be fresh and fun.
Unless you get it very right within the first few years, there is a possibility of the module be left hanging "as is". Their minds at the moment are on the Corsair.

Over the years there was a substantial changes back and forth to the FM.  So that's an area Magnitude 3 probably wants to thread lightly. Another factor is the lack of coders/time. And third, I talked to a source close to the original dev team a few years back. I was told that there are some very real limitations on what can be fixed without ripping everything out and start over. The MiG-21bis started as a mod and the foundation was as good as they could do it back then.

There has been talks of improvements and cockpit overhauls. But at the moment It's hard to tell if Magnitude 3 team will find the spark that will make work on the MiG-21bis fun again. To prioritize it's development over upcoming fresh projects. Anyways, that's my subjective opinion.  

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MiG21bisFishbedL

MiG21bisFishbedL

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Kobymaru said:

Because the module has been effectively abandoned for several years. It only receives the most basic fixes to keep up with DCS and new maps, if that.

And before people give me the whole story about how they're busy with Corsair and it's TOTALLY not abandoned, I will admit being wrong the second they release fixes or improvements for any of the many bugs in the Bug Tracker or the Bug forum.

 

It's the truth, since that's what they're doing. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. I'm not a fan of it, either, but it is what it is.

Mag3 is pretty tiny.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

  • 2 months later...
irisono

irisono

Posted
Posted

There's no question that the FM of this module is pretty messed up. Given the good reputation of this simulation, ED should ensure that such obvious errors are corrected in a timely manner.

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  • 5 months later...
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