A point about night illumination and gamma setting

[algherghezghez]

I’ve seen that you suggest to cranck up the gamma to make night less dark and supposedly more realistic.

This morning I flew the second mission of your brilliant mossie campaign, using 2.7 as gamma setting, still lower than what you suggest. Everything seemed excessively bright, but I said hey, maybe with a full moon this could be not so far off.

Now I just landed from a night flight IRL and I payed special attention to what I could see and how. Tonight we had almost a full moon and it still was incredibly dark. The ground is still completely black, I see how you could pick up contacts flying above a layer of cloud which reflects the moonlight very well, but other than that seeing anything that it’s not illuminated is almost impossible. I think I will go back to 2.2 setting as it’s what I think reflects reality better.

Also I just read cover of darkness, a must read if you haven’t yet, from a night fighter which operated beaufighters and later mosquitoes. He very well describes how dark the night is, how sometimes you couldn’t see a plane until 100 yds.

I want to make clear that this is not in any way a critique, but hopefully a point for discussion.

[Reflected]

Thanks for your input, very interesting!

 

[Nealius]

Just out of curiosity, but how much light pollution was there during your IRL night flight? Growing up as a kid out in areas with very little light pollution, similar to WW2 with smaller populations and light discipline, full-moon nights were so bright you could easily walk around outside without a flashlight. Not so bright as to see aircraft further than 100 yards, but certainly bright enough to discern ground and trees. 

[algherghezghez]

3 hours ago, Nealius said:

Just out of curiosity, but how much light pollution was there during your IRL night flight? Growing up as a kid out in areas with very little light pollution, similar to WW2 with smaller populations and light discipline, full-moon nights were so bright you could easily walk around outside without a flashlight. Not so bright as to see aircraft further than 100 yards, but certainly bright enough to discern ground and trees. 

I’m not sure what you mean, if you mean external lightning we were over southern Germany and then over the alps, so not much light there (not that at 30.000 ft it matters anyway); if you mean cockpit lightning we switch off everything that’s not necessary and dim down everything that is.

As far as walking without a torch is concerned, yes but I think it’s different. On the ground, thanks to moonlight you can see where you are going in the next x meters, what h the same ground from 10km in the air and it’s going to be black.

Edited August 27, 2023 by algherghezghez

[Yoda967]

I don't think the sim does a good job of changing what's visible as your eyes adjust to the darkness. The fact is that on a clear night when there are not city lights to contend with, once your eyes are adjusted to the darkness, you can see details from a surprising distance even by starlight alone.

When I was in the Navy, we practiced light discipline at sea. Smokers, for example, were not permitted to smoke topside after sunset, and we were taught that the reason was that a lit match could be seen from five miles away. (There is a superstition even beyond the military which warns of bad luck if one lights a third person's cigarette with a single match; the belief originated in WWI when soldiers were told that the time it takes to light three cigarettes is less than the time it takes for a sniper to take aim on the flame  and shift to the face nearest to it.)

@algherghezghez, I wonder if your view during that night flight wasn't affected by the light within the cabin. 

I don't disagree that the ground appears black from 30+ thousand feet, but at the altitudes where the Mosquitos typically flew, shapes ought to be discernable, especially when the pilot has had time for his eyes to adjust.   

[algherghezghez]

39 minutes ago, Yoda967 said:

I don't think the sim does a good job of changing what's visible as your eyes adjust to the darkness. The fact is that on a clear night when there are not city lights to contend with, once your eyes are adjusted to the darkness, you can see details from a surprising distance even by starlight alone.

When I was in the Navy, we practiced light discipline at sea. Smokers, for example, were not permitted to smoke topside after sunset, and we were taught that the reason was that a lit match could be seen from five miles away. (There is a superstition even beyond the military which warns of bad luck if one lights a third person's cigarette with a single match; the belief originated in WWI when soldiers were told that the time it takes to light three cigarettes is less than the time it takes for a sniper to take aim on the flame  and shift to the face nearest to it.)

@algherghezghez, I wonder if your view during that night flight wasn't affected by the light within the cabin. 

I don't disagree that the ground appears black from 30+ thousand feet, but at the altitudes where the Mosquitos typically flew, shapes ought to be discernable, especially when the pilot has had time for his eyes to adjust.   

I agree the sim does a terrible job at depicting night lighting. I also agree that in a completely dark setting your eyes adjust quite well, but in an airplane you are never gonna be in that situation as you need at least some instrument lighting. 
 

As already said, in the cockpit we dim everything possible, not much differently from what they would’ve done.

depends on what they were doing, but aside from intruder missions mosquitoes weren’t flying that low. Also I’m not saying that night should be pitch black, just that higher gamma setting seem way to bright to me. I could try and take some pictures tonight but I’m afraid it wouldn’t correctly depict what the human eye can see.

Also, quoting again the author of cover of darkness, planes were picked up either with a full moon against the sky (with lots of luck) or against a cloud Layer; or finally against the light of ground fires from bomardments.

Edited August 28, 2023 by algherghezghez

[Reflected]

I think night visibility also depends on the screen we're using, so we may not be seeing the same thing.