Oil War Campaign

[GAJ52]

I have just found something very disappointing about this Sim - the Oil War Campaign. The first few missions were great, then I realised nearly every mission was practically the same. I had completely wiped out the opposition from the target area, only to find out they are back at full strength the next mission ....and the next ....and the next ??

 

I appreciate this is not a Dynamic Campaign but there doesn't appear to be any link between the missions at all.

 

Glen :(

[GGTharos]

Each phase uses a template; if you're fluctuating between two phases or reflying the same mission, you might experience such a thing, though it shouldn't happen too much - even then, there are generally four possible missions for each phase and each mission within a phase has a healthy use of randoms, particularly in regards to air defense units and other friendly/hostile air units.

 

Lastly, are you taking out your target, or 'everything you can'? If the latter, why? It defeats the spirit of the simulation.

Edited March 7, 2009 by GGTharos

[Jack57]

Lastly, are you taking out your target, or 'everything you can'? If the latter, why? It defeats the spirit of the simulation.

 

I agree with that totally which is why it mystifies that on many campaign missions, in order to score 100%, you are required to take out every last enemy on the map, including human AI. That certainly kills the spirit of the simulation.

In fact having to maintain a score above 50% without the campaign registering defeat is a real spoiler. As I see it, the score in an individual mission should just be a useful indicator of how you are progressing with your tasks, nothing more. You go out and do your best - some days you fail miserably, other days you wreak havoc - it shouldn't make a huge impact on the overall war effort.

One the most appealing aspects of the 'Comanche-Hokum' was its truly dynamic campaign. It was beautifully designed and always had a real sense that the war raged on whether you partook or not.

[GGTharos]

That's not actually correct - there are things you have to achieve to score above 50%, and you certainly don't need to 'kill everything on the map' to get 100%.

 

If it is a spoiler, by all means don't look at it.

 

A lot of stuff - random Ai popping up for one, can deal a blow to your score. Losing friendly units can reduce your score. A flight of apaches can really menace you.

Edited March 7, 2009 by GGTharos

[Jack57]

you certainly don't need to 'kill everything on the map' to get 100%.

My experience differs I'm afraid.

 

I hasten to add here that I don't want my comments to be seen as gratuitous criticism. Quite to the contrary, I am in total awe of all the people that put this amazing sim together.

 

Jack out :pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

That's fine, I'm just letting you know the GOW campaign has a lot of stuff built into it - I don't know how you play so I can't tell what's going on for you there.

 

Also, consider the score not a player score but state of the mission: Above 50, your side is winning, below, the other - and that state is used to decide which side advances.

[Wags]

My experience differs I'm afraid.

 

I hasten to add here that I don't want my comments to be seen as gratuitous criticism. Quite to the contrary, I am in total awe of all the people that put this amazing sim together.

 

Jack out :pilotfly:

 

By all means, please open up any advance or defense campaign mission and you will see that that statement is simply factually incorrect. More likely what is happening is that your friendly forces are taking loses and that in turn in reducing the mission score leading you to believe your statement. Even so, you only need to have a mission score above 50 to advance the front line to the next phase... no reason you must have a mission score of 100.

 

What it comes down to is that each mission is often a self contained battle in itself with many inputs, and the player is just one possible variable. As such, the player can simply sit back on the FARP and do nothing and see how the mission plays out. Depending on how the randoms play out, your side may win the mission despite the player doing nothing. Other times, the player will be hard pressed to get a mission win out of it. Due to randoms, how the mission plays out can vary greatly regardless of player performance. As GG pointed out, random CAS units can have a big impact. For example: if an Apache flight shows up, it can quickly take out a friendly tank platoon (3 tanks) and reduce the mission score by 20. Left unchecked by player or friendly AD, such units can be devastating. The exception to this are specific Raid and Recon missions that have very specific objectives and associated point structure.

 

The score should not be thought of as the "player score" but rather the state of the mission ... 51 and above player side is winning , 49 and below the enemy side is winning. The final mission score then determines which side advances in the next mission (phase) and moves the front line (as seen in each mission briefing). The exception is a mission score of exactly 50 where the next mission will stay in the same phase and randomly select a mission within that phase.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Wags

[Jack57]

More likely what is happening is that your friendly forces are taking loses and that in turn in reducing the mission score leading you to believe your statement.

I understand this, but would not this suggest it is possible to acheive a result greater than 100%? This I have never seen?

 

The score should not be thought of as the "player score" but rather the state of the mission ... 50 and above player side is winning , 49 and below the enemy side is winning. The final mission score then determines which side advances in the next mission (phase).

 

OK, now we are getting somewhere! That makes far more sense to me. Thank you sir :)

[Wags]

No, mission score is limited between 0 and 100. I'll let Chizh or one of the programmers correct me on this if I am mistaken... not 100% certain of this, just 99% ;)

 

Happy to help.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Wags

[GAJ52]

Gentlemen

 

Many thanks for explaining the campaign scoring system. I did mistakenly believe you had to eliminate as many of the enemy as possible in order to win the campaign .... I was wondering why I was coming back so shattered.

 

Glen :)

[Jack57]

This certainly makes a difference to the way you approach a mission.

However, when you view the score during a mission it actually says 'X% Mission Complete' hence the reason some of us came to see it as player progress. It occurs to me that it would be better if it said something like 'Balance of Power x%' the value of which could be negative or postive. Just an idea ... :joystick:

[jctrnacty]

For me it´s a little disappointment. There are four possibilities how will the next mission look like, it´s dependant on your score. 0-50 51-80 51-80 81-100.

 

It reverts you back or moves you forward to next mission.

 

I hope we will get improved campaigns in next modules SOMETIMES !!! I don´t need it now immediately. :-)

[experimental_pilot]

This certainly makes a difference to the way you approach a mission.

However, when you view the score during a mission it actually says 'X% Mission Complete' hence the reason some of us came to see it as player progress. It occurs to me that it would be better if it said something like 'Balance of Power x%' the value of which could be negative or postive. Just an idea ... :joystick:

I also wish that in the Debriefing we would get some more feedback as to whether the Mission was a Success, Partial Success or Failure. Like in LockOn.

[jjpl2001]

Comanche Hokum campaing Style Rules!!!

 

One the most appealing aspects of the 'Comanche-Hokum' was its truly dynamic campaign. It was beautifully designed and always had a real sense that the war raged on whether you partook or not.

 

What it comes down to is that each mission is often a self contained battle in itself with many inputs, and the player is just one possible variable. As such, the player can simply sit back on the FARP and do nothing and see how the mission plays out. Depending on how the randoms play out, your side may win the mission despite the player doing nothing. Other times, the player will be hard pressed to get a mission win out of it. Due to randoms, how the mission plays out can vary greatly regardless of player performance. As GG pointed out, random CAS units can have a big impact. For example: if an Apache flight shows up, it can quickly take out a friendly tank platoon (3 tanks) and reduce the mission score by 20. Left unchecked by player or friendly AD, such units can be devastating. The exception to this are specific Raid and Recon missions that have very specific objectives and associated point structure.

 

The score should not be thought of as the "player score" but rather the state of the mission ... 51 and above player side is winning , 49 and below the enemy side is winning. The final mission score then determines which side advances in the next mission (phase) and moves the front line (as seen in each mission briefing). The exception is a mission score of exactly 50 where the next mission will stay in the same phase and randomly select a mission within that phase.

 

Ooohh men Comanche-Hokum Campaing... Despite its lack of realism in that flight game. The campaing was real real real dynamic enough to keep you behind the joystick for various weeks

 

.. I see two sides of the coin..

Comanche hokum was an arcade flight style But the campaing is Still so so so real an dynamic. You can reach some targets of other comrades and if you take down them you can hear at the radio your comrade saying "returning to base" you can get and flight different platoons with different wingmen aircrafts wich changes your logistic... and you can win by taking down only important points of the enemy (like real life). So othe drawback is in GOW you need to kill the entire point.. In comache hokum you where assigned a very very specific task. and if you take out other than yours you see the difference in enemy's power capability. Some times you where assigned a recong to a unknoun place and suddenly you find it is just an abbandoned farp OR you find out it is an enterely anti aircraft platoon deffending a farp or a factory, so you can return to base pacefully OR take down the factory and score some good points to your side-

 

The other side of the coin is that DCSBS is a very very very very... ... ... very real Sim (un like Comanche Hokum) I have nothing more to say than awesome real. BUT!! the campaing is very... programmed... the only purpouse of the campaing is to give you a reason to fly... its just no real... the small arms just stay freezed in the same porint... (Comanche Hokum has moving infantry) A campaing based in scores and phases depending only on your flight is jus an arcade and unreal programmed campaing... Pleas just play Comanche Hokum and see what Im talking about...

Edited September 21, 2011 by jjpl2001
Literal corrections

[EbonySeraphim]

I hope this question is appropriate to ask in this topic. I just started this campaign and have found it somewhat difficult because I don't know exactly when I've completed the mission. I read the brief thoroughly, and I notice when the mission score approaches 100, except unlike the first campaign "Deployment" there's no sound effect or indication that you have completed the mission. Do I just need to exit the mission when I feel like I've done enough?

[Jona33]

Press "@" and it will say the percentage complete. 51-100 is a pass.

[EbonySeraphim]

Press "@" and it will say the percentage complete. 51-100 is a pass.

So then I just exit the mission on my own once I'm satisfied with the % complete?

 

That's incredibly unsatisfying...but as long as I know.

[Rusty_M]

With this campaign, I notice there's a campaign entitled Georgian Oil War, but there's also Georgian Oil War parts 1, 2 and 3. Are the latter parts just a split up version of the full campaign, or should I play these four parts in total in some specific order?

[Nate--IRL--]

1,2 & 3 are the 3 chapters of the main campaign. This was done for those that don't feel like starting from the very start.

 

Nate

[Rusty_M]

Thanks Nate. The one without a chapter number for me (once I've finished deployment). Especially as I have pilot death turned off.