Respectfully submitted question. Lomac Vs Falcon

[concretefire]

STOP! HOLD IT RIGHT THERE! READ NO FURTHER UNTIL YOU HAVE READ MY PRE-QUESTION!!!!!!!!

 

Pre-question:

I am 36 yrs of age. I have been flying Falcon since day 1.......on and off.

What I love about falcon> I just love to fly man. I love the *idea* of realistic weapons systems, and avionics......and I love the *idea* of having to learn 487 button combinations just to start the aircraft, if I so choose.

 

What I hate about Falcon.......same as above LOL. Seriously, I've noticed a pattern with myself. I install it, fly around for a while, buzz the towers and stuff :thumbup: but I think only once have I ever really taken it seriously enough to fly 100% realism, actually program my HOTAS, actually LEARN the weapons systems, and I did manage to win ONE campaign. ONE, in 10 years now? LOL. I get frustrated at having to learn it.......get bored.......uninstall it or never fly it until the "Next" version comes out (which is now FF5) and then have to "re-learn" everything. It get's old, and frustrating.

 

Now, let's be real for a moment.....when LOMAC came out.......A LOT of die hards from the Falcon camp frowned upon it. I DON'T CARE WHY. I DON'T KNOW WHY. All I do know, is at the time, I was firmly in the Falcon camp so I never bothered with LOMAC.

 

Fast forward to today. DCS BLackshark. I personally was like OMFG , I could not believe the videos I was seeing. Ok, So I'm hooked on Blackshark. Cool.

The graphics in my humble opinion is jaw dropping. I LOVE IT!!!!!!

And it seems to have the same falcon like learning curve (huge) if you want to go that route. (Like I said, I love the IDEA of that, but probably won't ever learn it lol)

 

So, tonight, I was browsing thru the forums here and hit the lomac forums. Honestly, it's the first time I have seen screenshots, and screenshots of the mods. In a word: OH MY GOD!!!!!!!

 

I wanted to say all of that because I have been around long enough to know that there is somewhat of a beef between the Falcon camp and the Lomac camp. I know that. I understand that. I don't know why exactly, and I don't care why honestly. I'm not here to start any crap.

 

What I want to know.......what is the major differences between Falcon, and Lomac? The falcon camp says lomac is just eye candy. That may be true, I don't know......but if a good lookin' chick is just "eye candy"....sure doesn't stop me from trying her out. So the logic there doesn't make sense to me.

 

Could someone with 1st hand knowledge of both give me the real low-down. An adult, non flamewar, straight to the point low down on both games? Pro's con's. Etc.

 

I am sorry for the long windedness of my post, but I wanted to make 2 things clear. 1) I've been around awhile, so I know this somewhat murky water........and 2) This is only my 3rd post here, and wanted to be crystal clear that I only seek the truth about lomac compared to falcon, without starting a ridiculous war and being percieved as a trouble maker or something. Thank you in advance for any answers.

[SUBS17]

Why don't you just buy it and make your own conclusions you can get LO quite cheap now.:thumbup:

[concretefire]

Yes, you are correct. I guess I should have said this too: I'm itching to really LEARN one combat flight sim. I finally have the time, so I was wondering pro's con's of each.

[Kuky]

2 big differences... Falcon 4 is much more detailed about avionics/wepon systems as after all it is a sim about 1 aircraft only. LockOn is bit simplified version of few aircraft... the feel of flight is better, the graphics are better also, but with many addons Falcon 4 has gotten better but still not as good as lockon. Learning curve is much greated in Falcon 4 (as you've experienced). Don't know what you really want... it seems you don't really want the steep learnign lurve of DCS and later F4 derivatives (such as FF5) and want bit more "fun" to fly sim... Lockon fits perfectly there... it does have bugs wich bugg me personally (if people use its deficiencies) but I preffer them over F4 deficiencies (mostly outdated graphyics).

 

As sugested you really sould try LockOn and get Flaming Cliffs also and I think you will like it. There are couple really great mods done by the community (much apreciated by me and many others) which make it even more enjoyable... it's been some 2-3 years of me flying it and I still take it my most enjoyable sim today. I played IL-2 before and I enjoyed it very much also (which is why I stuck with it for some 3-4 years I think not playing anything else).

 

Now that DCS is out and level of detail where LockOn was lacking is much, much improved it's only mater of time till DCS level fighters are out and I move to there... to finish off... get it, you will like it... it's not very expensive and if you have 100h of fun with it it's very small price to pay for many hours of enjoyment.

[mvsgas]

Like always this boils down to what are you looking for in a sim/game. Both LOCKon FC and Falcon are complex in their own right. In falcon (depending of the version) most challenges come form managing the aircraft while being a part of this huge campaign. Is the avionics, the use of the systems,etc. Lockon has some factor of this because it is very challenging to properly utilize a radar systems while 5 people lunch all of their missiles at you. Falcon has a very good campaign engine that for the most part, has define the type of play. Consider the fact that the campaign engine is about a decade old and still I can not recollect any other game that has produce similar campaign engine. Now lock on has , again some of this because there are people out there that spend a lot of time writing different missions, campaigns,etc. One of many arguments is immersion. That again falls on you, I can play a flash game and I enjoy myself and have enough immersion, I do the same with both Lock FC and Falcon 4.0 (RV, OF, SP, BMS, etc) Some people need graphics to immerse themselves on that fictional world, some need complex tasks, for example, find a target with GM radar and switching sensory of interest to the targeting pod, making sure that laser is on , master arm is on and to make certain you pickle the bombs correctly, the whole time looking for SAMs or enemy aircraft, done this in Falcon 4.0. Another big point is Multilayer. Some people can not connect to each other with falcon. So they have to play Lock on if they want multilayer action. The same can not be said about lock on, but lock is a lot younger that falcon also. Do you see the trend here? Try them, if you like it great, if not oh well. We all have our disappointments in games movies, etc.

 

Falcon(most versions) Good

Campaign, complex avionics, many vehicle and feel like you a little part of this world. I love the F-16 .

Bad

Hard to connect on line (to some) Crashes, many mods/updates that destroy the installed file and you have to do the falcon dance ( re intalled the game and all mods). Some other issues people out there have, You probably find many threads about.

 

Lockon FC good

Beautiful graphics, very challenging multilayer, Many free well made mods.

Bad

Some times "Quake" mentality ( Some guys will take off fire all their missile land re-armed, repeat) Crashes. Some other issues people out there have, You probably find many threads about.

Edited March 17, 2009 by mvsgas

[weasel75]

If you enjoyed the F4 for its realism, then DCS is the way to go. The A-10 will show up some day .. so you will have your fixed wings then ;)

 

Lomac is great for it's graphics, full-speed NOE is way more thrilling than with the outdated (sorry for being a heretic) Falcon.

 

But for me, Lomac in SinglePlayer never felt as intense as the Falcon ... the dynamic campaign delivered such full skies and always something unexpected going on.

In Lomac the missions are ... mhmm... if it is not planned/considered, it won't happen. Booooring. Almost like flying in a dead world ("The Quiet Earth" anyone? ;) ).

And: the F16 was also way more challenging than any of the aircrafts in LockOn - the Su-25T from Flamming Cliffs aside ... *think* ... no, even the Su-25T was not as challenging (in avionics) as the "later"/patched F16 with it's alsmost complete startup-procedure, all the radar-modes, etc.

 

... Multiplayer: different story :)

(just like in IL-2 .. which (for me) also became boring in SinglePlayer quiet fast)

[concretefire]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking really. Go with Lomac for my graphics fix, + some mods , it'll all be new to me so should be FUN. Then, learn Blackshark as I go. I don't know. I love Falcon, but it is soooooooooo old. I just wanna find a game/sim that I WANT to learn, something I think about every day. Doesn't even have to be flying really. I'm waiting for ARMA II to come out. I seem to be stuck in a gaming rutt :(

[RedTiger]

The big difference for me between LOMAC and Falcon that defines the two sims is the mission editors. I think I just might be a unique and special snow flake in this department because I don't see too much discussion about this.

 

BOTH have mission editors, but LOMAC's is far, far easier to use. Falcon's tactical engagement creator is a pain in the ass. Both can orchestrate very precise coordination between units. With LOMAC you can do this in minutes. Falcon's takes a lot longer because you have to fiddle with the speed and time on steer point numbers to get the sim to accept your flight plan and have the AI act accordingly. In LOMAC you can just fiddle with the times and give the AI a general behavior to follow. I have created huge missions in LOMAC with air to ground and air to air going on all at once in a few hours that would have taken 10 times as long in Falcon.

 

You have to ask yourself several questions. Do you want to have precise control over the missions you fly or do you want to be given random missions that are never the same? Would you rather fly quick missions with a desired learning objectives or would you rather fly in something like Red Flag? Do you want control over accuracy at the expense of randomness or are you willing to put up with some gamey, unrealistic stuff to get that element of surprise?

 

IMO, the realism of Falcon goes as far as the cockpit. The aircraft is modeled accurately and you have to spend a great deal of time to learn just how to operate it, but the environment in which you find yourself in the campaign is not very realistic. For example, people always told me "you have to realize the limitations of the campaign. It is what it is. Once you get over this, you'll enjoy it more". Very true. When I read about "BARCAP hijacking" in the Red Viper manual, something clicked and I started to enjoy the campaign more. Yes, taking one of the boring, useless BARCAP missions and changing it around to a sweep or SEAD is terribly unrealistic, but that type of thing is the key to enjoyment of Falcon.

 

LOMAC has simplistic avionics and you can learn pretty much all the basic stuff you need to know about how to fight and fly by watching a couple of Ironhand's tutorials. Operating the aircraft is simple. What goes on in the simulation world, however, can be as complex as you make it. People are quick to ridicule the unrealisms in LOMAC, but really it is as realistic as you want it to be. You don't have to use gamey tactics, you can learn how to fight the realistic way. You can set up realistic, accurate missions -- ones you've read about or could reasonably expect a pilot of your aircraft to actually encounter -- and fly them over and over again. You can change things around, add things, take away things and see how that effects the outcome. You can set up missions just to focus on one particular aspect and fly those several times to understand the concept. And, if you want random encounters, there's always this:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=36455 :)

 

Maybe it's just my personality, but I've found the latter to be far more entertaining and something I always come back for. Therefore, LOMAC is a shoe-in for my vote. The way I approach it seems to be similar to the way the military clients ED works with approach it. I prefer tactical fidelity and practicing defined concepts vs. OMFG randomness!!1. :P

Edited March 19, 2009 by RedTiger

[Grimes]

Lockon could be a nice refreshing sim for you to quench your thirst for something different. When I got it I was hooked on wanting to learn every aircraft. I appreciated how difficult it was and still is at times to fly the Su-25t. The game does have variety pretty well built in. Yes online missions tend to be a bit action oriented and some people fly unrealistically, but that choice is still made by the indiviual pilot.

 

Variety is one of the strong points of Lockon. Online and custom missions can be played however you want. All the different available a/c allow you choice in the matter.

 

Chances are if you enjoy flight sims, it couldn't hurt to give Lockon a try...

[spyda]

both very good sim's lock on graphics are very well done, F4 graphics are bit average but makes up in the systems etc.

 

any one who enjoys there flight sim's should own both :thumbup:

 

the old A-10 cuba was not bad as well little to old now but in the day did a great job click able cockpit as well etc etc

[hitman]

^^Spammer above

 

 

Anyways Im with you about heavily detailed flight simulators (and the lack of motivation to learn them in depth). I have F4 and used to be on top of it for a few months before LOMAC even came out...which was about the same time SuperPak 3 came out. I got just enough knowledge out of it to figure out how to work the armament and score kills, much like I did with BlackShark. I dont fight in them very well, I Just love to fly them.

 

LOMAC is the redheaded stepchild that I like to beat every now and then. Its really moddable at the moment (I have nearly 500 new model replacements), and its fun to fly. Personally, if you just want to fly, I would recommend either X Plane 9 or FSX, since both are fairly high in depth of procedures, the terrain is much nicer, and the feeling of flight is that much closer to realistic than any combat flight sim you can get (with regards to black shark and the Su-25T in FC).

[Kaptein_Damli]

STOP! HOLD IT RIGHT THERE! READ NO FURTHER UNTIL YOU HAVE READ MY PRE-QUESTION!!!!!!!!

 

Pre-question:

I am 36 yrs of age. I have been flying Falcon since day 1.......on and off.

What I love about falcon> I just love to fly man. I love the *idea* of realistic weapons systems, and avionics......and I love the *idea* of having to learn 487 button combinations just to start the aircraft, if I so choose.

 

What I hate about Falcon.......same as above LOL. Seriously, I've noticed a pattern with myself. I install it, fly around for a while, buzz the towers and stuff :thumbup: but I think only once have I ever really taken it seriously enough to fly 100% realism, actually program my HOTAS, actually LEARN the weapons systems, and I did manage to win ONE campaign. ONE, in 10 years now? LOL. I get frustrated at having to learn it.......get bored.......uninstall it or never fly it until the "Next" version comes out (which is now FF5) and then have to "re-learn" everything. It get's old, and frustrating.

 

Now, let's be real for a moment.....when LOMAC came out.......A LOT of die hards from the Falcon camp frowned upon it. I DON'T CARE WHY. I DON'T KNOW WHY. All I do know, is at the time, I was firmly in the Falcon camp so I never bothered with LOMAC.

 

Fast forward to today. DCS BLackshark. I personally was like OMFG , I could not believe the videos I was seeing. Ok, So I'm hooked on Blackshark. Cool.

The graphics in my humble opinion is jaw dropping. I LOVE IT!!!!!!

And it seems to have the same falcon like learning curve (huge) if you want to go that route. (Like I said, I love the IDEA of that, but probably won't ever learn it lol)

 

So, tonight, I was browsing thru the forums here and hit the lomac forums. Honestly, it's the first time I have seen screenshots, and screenshots of the mods. In a word: OH MY GOD!!!!!!!

 

I wanted to say all of that because I have been around long enough to know that there is somewhat of a beef between the Falcon camp and the Lomac camp. I know that. I understand that. I don't know why exactly, and I don't care why honestly. I'm not here to start any crap.

 

What I want to know.......what is the major differences between Falcon, and Lomac? The falcon camp says lomac is just eye candy. That may be true, I don't know......but if a good lookin' chick is just "eye candy"....sure doesn't stop me from trying her out. So the logic there doesn't make sense to me.

 

Could someone with 1st hand knowledge of both give me the real low-down. An adult, non flamewar, straight to the point low down on both games? Pro's con's. Etc.

 

I am sorry for the long windedness of my post, but I wanted to make 2 things clear. 1) I've been around awhile, so I know this somewhat murky water........and 2) This is only my 3rd post here, and wanted to be crystal clear that I only seek the truth about lomac compared to falcon, without starting a ridiculous war and being percieved as a trouble maker or something. Thank you in advance for any answers.

 

I know exactly what you mean! I started the world of combat flightsims with IL-2. I played very little the first times, only arcadesettings etc, etc. Then a couple of years later I discovered Lock On. I was sold! Easy to learn, big community helping me with questions etc! Myself and some friends started to fly every friday, formation, dogfighting, we had lots of fun! Then I came to a point that Lock On FC "bored" me. No clickable cockpit, no dynamic campaign, I felt the map/scenery to be so limited and I "knew" all the places to fly, I recognized every landmark etc. Then IL-2 1946 came out and I started playing IL-2 with full switch, online on hyperlobby. My friends stopped flying Lock On. Then I bought Falcon 4.0 Allied Force, installed it, took a quick flight and was disappointed over the "ugly" graphic compared to Lock On. I remember I was too upset about the lack of goodlooking water!

 

I also took a look on the 716 pages PDF manual and then decided to uninstall it. This was just too much for me! I felt I didn´t had the time to learn all about it, and if I did, what about the lack in graphics? I had Falcon in my bookshelf for over a year, when I suddenly installed it again (now I was a little bored with IL-2, wanted more speed and modern jets, but was bored with the limits of Lock On) and installed Falcon again. This time I visited the Frugals forum, read some essential threads (stickys) and started from scratch going over the traning missions covered in the manual. I could use the mavericks, dogfight a little, but that was it.

 

Then I posted some questions on Frugals, when someone sent me a PM about my movies on YouTube (Lock On/IL-2). He asked if I played Falcon online, which I stated I didn´t because lack of skill. He said he wanted to learn me online, we did, and now I am all hooked up!

Find someone to fly online with you, learning online you will learn a much faster pace and it is more fun than to read a manual! I do search the forums or the manual if I wonder about something, but now I am so into Falcon! Dynamic campaign is awesome! Everything happens in realtime, you will see tanker, awacs etc, takeoff/land when you enter a mission, you will se your groundforces moving out, A-10 doing CAS etc. It really feels that your in a war and you are doing your small part. Here is what Lock On failed. Lock On has static boring campaigns. Limited map (Falcon has SEVERAL countries including Korea/Balcan theater 2005/2010 scenario. Lock On FC scores high in graphics, FM, (some of them like SU-25T) and effects (explosions etc). Actually, Falcon has dynamic weather while Lock On has static.

Falcon may have a simpler FM, but the radars, weaponssystems are so complex and "real" that the workload you need to do is much higher than in Lock On. Try doing a rampstart in Lock On...

 

Bottom line, Lock On FC for me now is great when I make small missions doing some CAS with the A-10 or sweep with the F-15C etc. Also nothing beats Lock On when it comes to aerobatics! I am just glad I have them both, but overcoming the steep learning curve of Falcon or BS (I don´t play it due to old comp) will pay off! You will learn new stuff every day, and the more you learn, the more fun and more skills you will gain! :book:

 

If you want to fly with us on saturdays (I play from Norway, my friend who had the patience and trained me, lives in the US, Indiana) leave me a PM! We play Allied Force (no dance!) and it´s stable online! No crash for us yet in several months of play! I tried FF5, but if you like CTD, go ahead! :music_whistling:

 

About what I said about the bad graphics in Falcon, after I got Aeyes 16:10 highres pits, Tom´s HiTiles, I would say the scenery up high actually looks pretty decent! Almost like Lock On!