AV8B & South Atlantic Campaigns / Missions

[C3PO]

Hi - been trying to find offline campaign and mission files for the Harrier in the South Atlantic map - focusing on the Falklands conflict ideally - but there seems nothing around, unless I've missed it? Would love to fly this combination as I am re-reading Sea Harrier Over The Falklands by Commander 'Sharkey' Ward.

Edited December 11, 2023 by C3PO

[Gunnar81]

Its unfortunate but I think you could be waiting a while. Razbam released some news on their Discord stating that the Harrier will be getting some substantial updates to bring it up to Strike Eagle quality, but that will be in mid-ish 2024. Until then I don't think we'll see any official content for the Harrier, but who knows...

[rkk01]

Easy answer - there is no Sea Harrier

I have tried to use the AV-8B as a stand in, but it’s just a different aircraft. You might as well bring a Sopwith Camel to a Battle of Britain scenario.

 

ETA - the AV-8B is a ground pounder…

You can’t set it up in the ME for missions like CAP or Intercept.

It has no A2A radar, and the AIM-9s are really only defensive

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by rkk01

[Gorn_GER]

18 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Easy answer - there is no Sea Harrier

I have tried to use the AV-8B as a stand in, but it’s just a different aircraft. You might as well bring a Sopwith Camel to a Battle of Britain scenario.

 

ETA - the AV-8B is a ground pounder…

You can’t set it up in the ME for missions like CAP or Intercept.

It has no A2A radar, and the AIM-9s are really only defensive

 

 

 

 

 

 

But wasn't GB using the GR.1(A) and GR.3 in the Falklands war? As i can see this version never got an AA Radar. Just with the knowledge of that war, Royal Airforce began to put Radars into Harriers for Sea Harrier FA.2 in 1988, some years after the Falkland war?

[rkk01]

37 minutes ago, Gorn_GER said:

But wasn't GB using the GR.1(A) and GR.3 in the Falklands war? As i can see this version never got an AA Radar. Just with the knowledge of that war, Royal Airforce began to put Radars into Harriers for Sea Harrier FA.2 in 1988, some years after the Falkland war?

Best approach here is to understand that the Harrier and Sea Harrier are very different aircraft with different roles and developed for different users.

The Harrier I family (AV-8A in US) were developed for the RAF - mainly intended for forward area battlefield ops.  No A2A radar.

The Sea Harrier was developed from the Harrier for the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm (F.A.A.) - always intended as a fleet air defence fighter after the Ark Royal / Phantom FG.1s were withdrawn.

The first Sea Harrier FRS.1 (FRS = fighter, recon, strike) was equipped with Blue Fox A2A radar and AIM-9 (9L for Falklands conflict)

The upgraded Sea Harrier FA.2 was still based on the Harrier I airframe (with most FRS1s upgraded to FA2).  The FA2 was equipped with the very capable (and highly classified) Blue Vixen radar, AIM-9s and AMRAAMs.

Both Sea Harrier variants are a totally different proposition to the standard Harrier GR series. The OP ( @C3PO ) quotes Sharkey Ward’s Sea Harrier book - which outlines how his Sea Harrier unit cleaned the floor with a US F-5 Aggressor unit as well as with contemporary F-15Cs… and the Sea Harrier joins the F-15 as the only two jets with an unblemished kill to loss ratio
 

Our DCS AV-8B is the upgraded MDD BAE Harrier II airframe… equivalent to the RAF GR5 / GR9…. Still mud movers and not equivalent to the Sea Harrier “family”

Edited December 12, 2023 by rkk01

[xflyer]

To come up with something fun for a campaign you basically have to do an alternate history scenario. Here are a few ideas:

1. Move the war to the early '90s and pretend that either the Sea Harrier never existed or it was retired early and the RAF/RN is now using the GR.5 under Joint Force Harrier.

2. There's an HMAS Melbourne model out there. Maybe it's still 1982 but the Sea Harrier never existed, so the RN just has helicopter carriers. Australia joints the coalition, and the RAN brings the Melbourne with its Skyhawks to provide air cover.

3. Scenario 2, but it's a few years later and the Aussies now fly Hornets off the Melbourne, which they keep in service (I think the Hornet is compatible)

4. Scenario 3, but the Aussies bought the Bon Homme Richard to replace Melbourne (use the new CV-31 model), allowing them to fly E-2s and S-3s in addition to the Hornet

5. This one's outlandish, but let's pretend that the US actually got possession of the islands (which is plausible after the intervention of the USS Lexington in 1831). Argentina invades in the middle of Desert Storm, making the US resources available for response far more limited, maybe just a single carrier and an LHA.

Edited December 13, 2023 by xflyer

[C3PO]

Thank you all for your replies - was only thinking of the AV-8B in the Falklands within the capabilities that it has … ie no A2A etc apart from Aim-9s….could still be fun.

[rkk01]

2 hours ago, C3PO said:

Thank you all for your replies - was only thinking of the AV-8B in the Falklands within the capabilities that it has … ie no A2A etc apart from Aim-9s….could still be fun.

It’s a good point, and worthwhile to try…

I have tried setting up missions from Invincible, but the AV-8B is limited to the ground attack type roles in the Mission Editor… I might try setting “none” in the mission role picklist and head off with a pair of sidewinders

[xflyer]

6 hours ago, rkk01 said:

It’s a good point, and worthwhile to try…

I have tried setting up missions from Invincible, but the AV-8B is limited to the ground attack type roles in the Mission Editor… I might try setting “none” in the mission role picklist and head off with a pair of sidewinders

Really? I swear I've set it to "CAP" in the ME and it's been allowed.

 

9 hours ago, C3PO said:

Thank you all for your replies - was only thinking of the AV-8B in the Falklands within the capabilities that it has … ie no A2A etc apart from Aim-9s….could still be fun.

Radar-less intercepts would be more practical with vectors. Too bad we don't have either GCI or the RN's AEW&C helicopters, but you could put in a hidden AWACS as a substitute.

[rkk01]

I think AWACS is a reasonable concession…

RN didn’t have AEW - to the expense of Sheffield… Destroyers and frigates were stationed as radar pickets - as were the SSNs, apparently (well passive watch rather than radar I’d guess)

[xflyer]

42 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

I think AWACS is a reasonable concession…

RN didn’t have AEW - to the expense of Sheffield… Destroyers and frigates were stationed as radar pickets - as were the SSNs, apparently (well passive watch rather than radar I’d guess)

In '82, correct. Shortly after that they stuck an AEW radar on a Sea King, which would be a nice asset for the Invincible.

[rkk01]

2 hours ago, xflyer said:

In '82, correct. Shortly after that they stuck an AEW radar on a Sea King, which would be a nice asset for the Invincible.

Yes, I remember the Sea King AEWs being tested, probably something like summer 82 - IIRC we joked about them being flying dustbins