VF-211 Southern Watch birds

[Noctrach]

If you look up images from VF-211 at Southern Watch you will consistently see the following configuration:

+

 

Now I'm curious about two things:

1. These are all F-14As. Does anyone know what the RIO seat looked like for these guys? Were they fishbowls or did they get the PTID/digital bus like the B's?
2. Would the LANTIRN provide targeting in this configuration? Iirc in DCS it only provides cues when selecting a GBUs on the armament panel.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Noctrach

[Quid]

For question 1, they would have had PTIDs installed.  The F-14A and pre-upgrade B couldn't "talk" to LANTIRN without it (lacked the databus, had to be wired for LANTIRN separately, and interacted with the pod and other systems using the PTID).[1]   

For question 2, those CBUs don't appear to have any laser package installed, so I'm guessing the LANTIRN is there for buddy-lasing, but will defer to someone with better knowledge.

Sources:

1. Lake, Tony (ed.), F-14 BOMBCAT, The US Navy's Ultimate Precision Bomber, Air Forces Magazine, 1 Jan 2015, 32-33.

[Nealius]

VF-154 had a similar setup going in the 2000s as well. PTID in the back, standard A cockpit in the front from what I can gather (which isn't much).

What I'm interested in are if dumb-bomb drops could be made on LANTIRN-designated targets, and what's up with the protruding fuse on those CBU-99/100s?

[Noctrach]

Thanks guys, after some more searching I found this video from a couple months ago on Bio's youtube channel, showing they indeed had the PTID in the back.

(loud warning)

Interesting view of the old-school AWG-9 radar symbology overlaid on the LANTIRN picture

With respect to the clusters, I found a couple more snippet that all pointed to the LANTIRN being purely used for attaining and communicating the target picture. Nothing very conclusive but it does appear they just used them to set up for a manual drop or for talk-on/buddy lasing for other strikers.

[LanceCriminal86]

19 hours ago, Quid said:

For question 1, they would have had PTIDs installed.  The F-14A and pre-upgrade B couldn't "talk" to LANTIRN without it (lacked the databus, had to be wired for LANTIRN separately, and interacted with the pod and other systems using the PTID).[1]   

For question 2, those CBUs don't appear to have any laser package installed, so I'm guessing the LANTIRN is there for buddy-lasing, but will defer to someone with better knowledge.

Sources:

1. Lake, Tony (ed.), F-14 BOMBCAT, The US Navy's Ultimate Precision Bomber, Air Forces Magazine, 1 Jan 2015, 32-33.

Untrue. VF-154 deployed with LANTIRN pods and no PTIDs in '96-'98 timeframe, with PTIDs starting to show up to their squadron around '98. The F-14As needed the PTID more because their TIDs were mostly burned out and difficult to read during the day. Source, from VF-154 crew and maintainers via the Tomcat Assn. Also photos from Dave Parsons during the testing with VF-103 of LANTIRN on a regular TID. LANTIRN was being done separately from the PTID project which was out at Pt Mugu as part of the MCAP. They just happened to be working in parallel and PTID was shown to greatly benefit the use of LANTIRN. So those screens were prioritized for As with LANTIRN and Bs with LANTIRN, but not the D as theirs was digital and didn't have the burn issues.

As far as the LANTIRN pod, it was more difficult to remove/reinstall so it was typically left on the jet. It would also allow for ID/Observation but wouldn't be part of designating or use in the drop itself.

[Nealius]

During combat (OIF, OEF) were LANTIRNS available for every jet or were they parted out to only a handful per squadron?

[LanceCriminal86]

31 minutes ago, Nealius said:

During combat (OIF, OEF) were LANTIRNS available for every jet or were they parted out to only a handful per squadron?

I don't believe so, later in life as the squadrons transitioned there were probably more pods to go around, like the PTIDs finally making their way into F-14Ds. But some of the commentary around stated something like 6 pods for a squadron, so if a jet went down they'd have to move the pod around and ideally take the PTID with it. At that kind of rate my guess is that a pair of Tomcats would have 1 of the jets with the pod to lase for both.

[Swordsman422]

By OAF/OEF/OIF, most of the F-14A and B squadrons had a mix of airplanes. 6-8 of a squadron's 10-12 jets might be wired for LANTIRN, while the remaining were wired for TARPS. In the A/B, the wiring was mutually exclusive, or at least it couldn't carry and use both at the same time. I don't know whether TARPS jets ever got PTIDs.

Often the designated LANTIRN jets would not have the pod downloaded regardless of the mission they were flying. LANTIRN's air-to-air mode was better than the TCS at identifying airborne targets, so even flying CAP, they'd leave them on and put the #2 Sparrow in the aft trough if the jet was carrying a 2/2/2 loadout.

[Quid]

5 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

Untrue. VF-154 deployed with LANTIRN pods and no PTIDs in '96-'98 timeframe, with PTIDs starting to show up to their squadron around '98. The F-14As needed the PTID more because their TIDs were mostly burned out and difficult to read during the day. Source, from VF-154 crew and maintainers via the Tomcat Assn. Also photos from Dave Parsons during the testing with VF-103 of LANTIRN on a regular TID. LANTIRN was being done separately from the PTID project which was out at Pt Mugu as part of the MCAP. They just happened to be working in parallel and PTID was shown to greatly benefit the use of LANTIRN. So those screens were prioritized for As with LANTIRN and Bs with LANTIRN, but not the D as theirs was digital and didn't have the burn issues.

As far as the LANTIRN pod, it was more difficult to remove/reinstall so it was typically left on the jet. It would also allow for ID/Observation but wouldn't be part of designating or use in the drop itself.

Thank you for the clarification!

[Nealius]

Well that seems to explain why I typically only see photos of the same 4~6 BuNos being launched/airborne when I peruse seaforces.org. 

So with TARPS, there were dedicated TARPS birds that could NOT take LANTIRN, and the LANTIRN birds could NOT take TARPS?

[LanceCriminal86]

1 minute ago, Nealius said:

Well that seems to explain why I typically only see photos of the same 4~6 BuNos being launched/airborne when I peruse seaforces.org. 

So with TARPS, there were dedicated TARPS birds that could NOT take LANTIRN, and the LANTIRN birds could NOT take TARPS?

Only certain jets came from Grumman wired for TARPS originally. When LANTIRN came along those were not selected for the mod. Apparently LANTIRN and TARPS shared the same panel areas in the A and B so you would be unable to operate both pods anyways.

B Upgrade and the digital BUS may have allowed for more B models being TARPS capable, seems to be conflicting info there. On the D they could all carry TARPS and I believe LANTIRN as well. Some Ds even carried TARPS and LANTIRN at the same time, though I don't know how they operated both if TARPS needed dedicated space also used by the LANTIRN control panel.

[bonesvf103]

I spoke with a former RIO and he said that in that configuration they did have PTID in the back and that the LANTIRN was 100% capable.

v6,

boNes