not planned Make this playable on Xbox/PS5 controllers and M/KB

[NineGzuz]

Firstly, I'm not suggesting to simplify the systems of the Apache, or to turn this into an arcade shooter or that action mode that was part of original Blackshark, or even Flaming Cliffs. That would be an injustice to the beautiful features of this sim.

What' I'd like to have, is the full sim experience. But without the investment into a HOTAS, seats, desks, justification to family members etc  Yes I know that's part of the experience and if you're lucky enough to have that viable in your life, then you have my admiration. But that's just not the case for most people. Although a console controller, and mouse and keyboard, well they are inexpensive and unobtrusive, and many folks already have these.

What I envision is:

• Flight controls, and firing of weapons on the controller. 
• Keyboard for advanced functions, that aren't needed in the heat of combat. 
• Mouse for looking around the cockpit and pressing buttons and switches.

For the above to work, the flight model would need to be greatly simplified to make it forgiving for the inaccuracy and short throw of a control pad. Ghost Recon Wildlands is one example of extremely easy helicopter controls (although perhaps too easy as it removes the hovering and floating feeling of a helicopter, but it's a good starting point). You can put the controller down, and then use mouse and keyboard to do cockpit work.

I would also like to suggest combining the mouse look and cursor into one - similar to first person shooter, where mouse movement changes where you look, and there is crosshair in the middle of the screen to point at buttons and switches.
 

Given that these input devices are so prevalent, it could be a good business decision for Eagle Dynamics to increase the accessibility of DCS to a larger audience. perhaps even console support (they do support mouse and keyboard btw) and also playing on the go. Laptop and a controller, and you can sim from anywhere! Especially in a multi-seat aircraft, it'll open it up to that friend that wants to be part your crew but won't the input hardware for the aforementioned factors. DCS is already quite a niche product, why further limit it's reach because of the input requirements? If you look at Steam, there's clearly a big market for realistic and detailed milsim games.

Thanks for reading, happy flying, and happy holidays

[Floyd1212]

It can be done with the current flight model.  Tuvas does have some fancy controllers (with motion tracking) that help him out, and then a lot of stick time, I'm sure.

 

 

[NineGzuz]

I have no doubt that people out there who practice enough and can fly on an xbox controller perfectly well, but that's not the same as making a sim/game more accessible - Get Good is not the answer I'm looking for 

Edited December 17, 2023 by NineGzuz

[SharpeXB]

You can already use gamepads or any controller with DCS. But an easier version of the flight model is something that won’t happen. There used to be a Game Mode with easier flying and such but it was removed since it causes too many problems. So yeah Get Good is the only answer there is. Honestly the Apache takes quite a bit of practice to handle even with a full HOTAS. Welcome to DCS

I understand that an Auto Torque Pedal assist feature is being discussed for the AH-64 so that might help users with limited controls. 

[Grennymaster]

Well, in the Arcade Mode i could accept a tweak of the FM for neebys to get into DCS at all.

BUT DCS is not meant to be a gamepad thing There is a good reason why the Real Aircrafts are not flown be gamepads entry level HOTAS Systems are not that expensive and do there Job not bad at all

if you really want to get good, you will never reach the level of an DCS Pilot with good Harware. Simply because he has much more Options on his HOTAS.

There are very talentet guys in DCS wich fly very very impresive with pad or Keybord and mouse. But they also agree that HOTAS will ever be better to get really good

[NineGzuz]

Not to put too much of a fine point on it, I'm not interested in practicing - I'd like to just blow up a few bad guys at the end of a long day  - that's the whole idea behind my original post - just a bit of fun and make believe and some really good explosions 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by NineGzuz

[Grennymaster]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb NineGzuz:

Not to put too much of a fine point on it, I'm not interested in practicing - I'd like to just blow up a few bad guys at the end of a long day  - that's the whole idea behind my original post - just a bit of fun and make believe and some really good explosions 

 

 

well then im not sure DCS is the way to go for you. WarThunder might be better for that szenario even  the Arcade mode of DCS requires that you learn an train your Bird.

What i would suggest for you. Take a bit time an get a deeper look into DCS an its details. mabye the "Virus" will take over and you will whant to get more

NO offence at all play as you like just want you to understand what DCS is

 

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, NineGzuz said:

Not to put too much of a fine point on it, I'm not interested in practicing - I'd like to just blow up a few bad guys at the end of a long day  - that's the whole idea behind my original post - just a bit of fun and make believe and some really good explosions 

Sorry to say but DCS isn’t that kind of game. Unless you think about practice and learning being the “game” ie it’s a journey not a destination. With enough practice you can engage in quick missions and such though. And again, the AH-64 even with the right controls requires a lot of practice to do anything in like just hover or land etc. Unless the really good explosions you like to see are from your own bird
If I want to blow off some steam at the end of a long day, my “game” in the Apache is sometimes just hovering, pick it up put it down etc. that’s a whole game in itself and quite rewarding to get right. Make those simple tasks your “game” then build on that until you can do whole missions without thinking. You'll get hooked

PS it’s Christmas! Ask Santa for a joystick

Edited December 19, 2023 by SharpeXB

[NineGzuz]

War Thunder (or anything else tbh) doesn't' have any of simulation aspects that I love about DCS. The systems management, the battlefield tactics and target prosecution is the interesting part for me.  The learning to fly part not so much. Hence my wish - DCS without having to spend time and money on flying

Anyway, I think this topic has run it's course. Thanks for the encouragement, and have a great Christmas and Holiday period!

[Grennymaster]

ok, so you want a sim but dont want it to be a sim? dont get the point sry .)

 

[NineGzuz]

On 12/22/2023 at 4:59 PM, Grennymaster said:

ok, so you want a sim but dont want it to be a sim? dont get the point sry .)

 

The point is the ability to play a deep simulator without a huge hardware/input investment - making it accessible and easily enjoyable with default PC controls.

[Grennymaster]

well, the thing is, a sim with very easy controls i not a sim there is a good reason real AC are nto flown with Xbox controllers. To be able to use the control surfaces with prezision you need controls that are useable under every aspekt of flight. therefore a real sim is mimikin that.

dont get me wrong the idea to get it easy accessible is good, thats why DCS has the Arcade mode. There you can fly anything with keybord an mouse.

But if you really want to get "real" it need to be as close to the real world as possible.

Yes good Sim Hardware is not cheap, but its worth it. im into sim flying for nearly 30 years now. i will never regret the hardware i buyd over the years.

[NineGzuz]

Sure, I understand, and I wouldn't want to take away any of the realistic flying for the people lucky enough to have a good set of flight controls. But being a wish list forum, I'm wishing for more options to allow me to enjoy DCS

Plus it would open the sim to a way bigger audience, as one huge and expensive barrier for entry would be gone - there's a lot of gamers out there with mice and keyboard, and xbox controllers on their PCs, and there is a thirst for milsim type games (and none of them are any where near as good as DCS) - so it would seem to me at least on the surface to be a good business choice (Of course I don't know what pros/cons are for running a successful software business)

Edited December 31, 2023 by NineGzuz

[Grennymaster]

thats wat the Arcade mode is for i dont think this will ever change, and honstly i hope so. The Arcade is to get in, if they would make the SIm mode easyer it would destroy it.

the majority of players are here cause it is as hard as it is me included

so i would just say: lets agree to disagree

 

[NineGzuz]

I'm not suggesting DCS is changed in any way that takes away from how you're already flying. That's the core of what makes DCS so great. I'm asking for options that people like yourself wouldn't use (since you've already got the input gear needed to simulate flying in a realistic way).

What I'm after is a full simulator with some options to allow me to fly with standard/common PC inputs (enjoyably).  

There's already a "Game Mode" flight mode for some modules, and the Apache would benefit from it too as a start. But also some tweaks to make it key/mouse/xbox controller friendly.

 

 

[SharpeXB]

On 12/31/2023 at 4:03 AM, Grennymaster said:

thats wat the Arcade mode is for

Not sure what you mean by that. DCS no longer has a Game Mode. I don’t think the AH-64 ever had this, some modules used to but it’s gone now afaik.

On 12/29/2023 at 6:00 PM, NineGzuz said:

The point is the ability to play a deep simulator without a huge hardware/input investment - making it accessible and easily enjoyable with default PC controls.

It’s already possible to use any type of controller including game pads. What you’re asking for can be done already so I’m not sure what the point of this topic is. 
Solutions for thumb stick sensitively could be stick extensions which are available for those and response curves within DCS.

The chief problem I would have with a gamepad is the inverted Y-axis for flying vs aiming on the TADS. There’s no solution to that

Edited January 2, 2024 by SharpeXB

[NineGzuz]

On 1/3/2024 at 7:47 AM, SharpeXB said:

It’s already possible to use any type of controller including game pads. What you’re asking for can be done already so I’m not sure what the point of this topic is. 

It can be done sure, but it's very frustrating to fly almost any aircraft with merely an xbox/ps5 controller.  What I'm asking for is to make it easy and enjoyable to fly with it by having an optional flight model / control system to suit an xbox/ps5 style controller. (yes at the expense of realistic flying, but it was never going to be realistic when you're using keyboard/mouse/xbox controller).

For example it's incredibly easy to fly a helicopter in Ghost Recon Wildlands because it's flightt model is completely gamified to suit the game console controllers.

So I'd love an option for an effortless flying mode. (but keeping everything else hardcore sim).  That way I can still enjoy using all of the systems and tactics of an Apache without fighting limited controls available.

Edited January 4, 2024 by NineGzuz

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, NineGzuz said:

It can be done sure, but it's very frustrating to fly almost any aircraft with merely an xbox/ps5 controller.  What I'm asking for is to make it easy and enjoyable to fly with it by having an optional flight model / control system to suit an xbox/ps5 style controller. (yes at the expense of realistic flying, but it was never going to be realistic when you're using keyboard/mouse/xbox controller).

For example it's incredibly easy to fly a helicopter in Ghost Recon Wildlands because it's flightt model is completely gamified to suit the game console controllers.

So I'd love an option for an effortless flying mode. (but keeping everything else hardcore sim).  That way I can still enjoy using all of the systems and tactics of an Apache without fighting limited controls available.

 

They won’t create another flight model, that much is certain. But if you want to de-sensitize the small sticks try using an “S” curve in the response menu. 

[Raptor9]

@NineGzuz, thank you for your interest in the DCS AH-64D. Unfortunately, what you are asking for is not planned.

There are plenty of reasonably priced joysticks, some with twist-sticks for yaw and sliders for collectives; and such devices are worth the investment in my personal opinion. But an arcade flight model that has been designed for use within a "first person shooter" genre is not in the plans for DCS AH-64D.

[cow_art]

7 hours ago, NineGzuz said:

It can be done sure, but it's very frustrating to fly almost any aircraft with merely an xbox/ps5 controller.  What I'm asking for is to make it easy and enjoyable to fly with it by having an optional flight model / control system to suit an xbox/ps5 style controller. (yes at the expense of realistic flying, but it was never going to be realistic when you're using keyboard/mouse/xbox controller).

For example it's incredibly easy to fly a helicopter in Ghost Recon Wildlands because it's flightt model is completely gamified to suit the game console controllers.

So I'd love an option for an effortless flying mode. (but keeping everything else hardcore sim).  That way I can still enjoy using all of the systems and tactics of an Apache without fighting limited controls available.

 

Well, there is one solution already implemented that makes flying the Apache super easy:  jump into the front seat and let the AI helper ("George") be the pilot. Random youtube video for demonstration

A lot of the CPG (=front seater) controls can be fit onto a gamepad. For example :

You'll still have to do the front seaters job. But that's perfectly doable without a joystick and you'll not have to directly pilot the aircraft. Perhaps this is close to the kind of gameplay you are looking for? And, as mentioned above, it already works today. 

Edited January 4, 2024 by cow_art

[NineGzuz]

 

6 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

@NineGzuz, thank you for your interest in the DCS AH-64D. Unfortunately, what you are asking for is not planned.

There are plenty of reasonably priced joysticks, some with twist-sticks for yaw and sliders for collectives; and such devices are worth the investment in my personal opinion. But an arcade flight model that has been designed for use within a "first person shooter" genre is not in the plans for DCS AH-64D.

Thanks for the official response, at first I thought it would increase sales of DCS as it lowers the barrier for entry, but having thought about it further, there probably isn't market for easy flight and hardcore sim features (it's usually one or the other)

Appreciate the suggestion but cheap sticks have far too few buttons for the Apache, so I'd be in the same situation where I have to take hands off the stick to look at the keyboard, move the mouse to change the view etc

I'll try the CPG seat and see what happens
 

[pii]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:31 PM, NineGzuz said:

I'm not suggesting DCS is changed in any way that takes away from how you're already flying. That's the core of what makes DCS so great. I'm asking for options that people like yourself wouldn't use (since you've already got the input gear needed to simulate flying in a realistic way).

What I'm after is a full simulator with some options to allow me to fly with standard/common PC inputs (enjoyably).  

There's already a "Game Mode" flight mode for some modules, and the Apache would benefit from it too as a start. But also some tweaks to make it key/mouse/xbox controller friendly.

 

 

While I have the gear now it wasn't always that way (and I could still use a little more). I bought it one piece at a time but I never ever would have considered an Xbox controller. It's just not right    Good luck in your search.

FYI I just saw an ad for an xbox like controller made for flight sims sorry can't, think of the name.