Molnija1985 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) Hello, sorry for my broken English. Please, will it be updated flight model on MiG-21Bis (official without mods)? Basically since release the flight model has been very bad...and 21 is not usable on dogfights or close maneuver combat. Now that he gets 21 opponents, it would be worth making the 21 a nimble and dynamic aircraft. At the moment, 21 behaves like a "brick" in the air. Thank you Best regards Molnija Edited January 19 by Molnija1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Not true, MiG-21Bis Flight Model has been updated several times during it's life (since 2014) and the lasts updates came not long ago actually. As for your other assumptions, MiG-21Bis was a pretty heavy aircraft as expected since it was the last big iteration of the model, you can listen to some Finish pilot's interview on YT speaking about that and how he preferred MiG-21F-13 over Bis for actual combat, though that means dogfight and not any real modern BVR combat at all in which MiG-21 would be really limited facing capable contemporary counterparts, let alone more modern ones. So Bis is exactly what is expected to be as you can see in the actual real manual, MiG-21 wasn't really a dogfighter unless against contemporary aircraft with limited to none capacities in that regard, same as MiG-21. Against other more modern fighters it's no match without proper strategies. And as that it's depicted here. MiG-21Bis wasn't ever a nimble fighter aircraft, you're probably confusing and mixing different models. 7 "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pilot Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) MiG 21 is a pretty heavy fighter?? Come on, Mig21 is little heavier than f5 e.. And it's easier than the F1 Mirage or Phantom.. And what does it matter if it's not the weight that matters, but the ratio of engine power to weight.. And although the Mig 21 may not had been the king of turning, it is still very maneuverable when it cames to roll. Edited January 22 by Red_Pilot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Yes, Bis was heavy, it's not just "weight" but as you pointed out thrust/weight ratio, hence wing load, yes those small wings highly loaded make it a heavy aircraft besides total weight. Size was barely the same all the time but weight wasn't, and bigger (so heavier) and more powerful engines didn't compensate for the overall weight increase, not to mention wings didn't get bigger so wing load didn't stop increasing. The real last model, not Bis but SMT, though not made in big numbers was a disaster due to weight increase with barely the same engine as Bis. Apparently pilots hated it. Why would it be so? Edited January 22 by Ala13_ManOWar "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pilot Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) The accident rate for Mig21 varies in different countries. In the USSR there was no high accident rate of the MiG21. About the wings: the area of the wings is not that small. The MiG21 has a wing area of 23 m2. For example, the F5 has a wing area of only 15 - 17 m2, MiG 19 has 25 m2, but the MiG21 is only 1 ton heavier than the F5. I would say that the wings of the MiG21 seem very small due to the optimization of the shape. Of course, the MiG21 is a representative jet fighters's generation for which the main qualities were speed and altitude... but MiG21 was not bad at all in turns. On the other hand, I came across reviews from real MiG21 pilots who rather disagree with the behavior of the DCS MiG21 at low speeds, with instability and swinging, but it seems not with the ability to turn. In addition, recently one of the MiG21 pilots wrote that the rate of climb without afterburner was better than now in DCS Edited January 27 by Red_Pilot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremspropeller Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The SMT came before the Bis. It was powered by the R13. 1 So ein Feuerball, JUNGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 You'll need correct references and data, something more than "it feels wrong." The nice thing is that the -21's stuff is pretty out in the open. The trick is finding the data for the correct variant as the MiG-21 saw immense changes to its lineage. Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobymaru Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 1/22/2024 at 10:28 PM, MiG21bisFishbedL said: You'll need correct references and data, something more than "it feels wrong." The nice thing is that the -21's stuff is pretty out in the open. The trick is finding the data for the correct variant as the MiG-21 saw immense changes to its lineage. You mean like this? https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.io/view.php?id=1139 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/24/2024 at 1:54 PM, Kobymaru said: You mean like this? https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.io/view.php?id=1139 Bingo. Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWasp Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/19/2024 at 7:31 PM, Molnija1985 said: Hello, sorry for my broken English. Please, will it be updated flight model on MiG-21Bis (official without mods)? Basically since release the flight model has been very bad...and 21 is not usable on dogfights or close maneuver combat. Now that he gets 21 opponents, it would be worth making the 21 a nimble and dynamic aircraft. At the moment, 21 behaves like a "brick" in the air. Thank you Best regards Molnija The DCS 21bis is not a brick, far from it. It's even overperforming compared to the RL charts in the low speed regime, you just have to be able to control it well enough to keep it on the limit and avoid the stall. You can even keep it nice and stable beyond the red line on the AoA indicator, you just need coordinated control inputs (no slide slip) and careful pitch control, then you can have extremely good turn rates with it. With the emergeny afterburner power is not an issue either. Roll rate is very good as well. The DCS 21bis can dogfight against an F-5 or any other 3rd. gen on equal terms, there are many people doing it daily online on the Cold War servers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWasp Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I've made a track: You can easily take the DCS 21 into the vertical even below 400 km/h (215 kts), low speed handling and turn rates can be excellent if you don't mess up. Try doing this with the F-5... MiG-21_lowspeedhndlg.trk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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