VR Or Monitor user Poll

[Eugel]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I honestly can’t see how it’s possible to design a game for both 2D and VR. You’d end up crushing one or underwhelming the other since VR is roughly 3x as demanding as 2D.

 

Why shouldn´t that be possible ? DCS does it, other games do it as well (several racing simulations, MSFS, Elite Dangerous, just to name the few that I played)
Of course VR is more demanding on the hardware, but that´s why we have graphics options. And no, the demand is nowhere near 3x

 

Though I have to agree that the poll with 50 participants doesn´t say much.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Eugel

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Eugel said:

Why shouldn´t that be possible ? DCS does it, other games do it as well (several racing simulations, MSFS, Elite Dangerous, just to name the few that I played)
Of course VR is more demanding on the hardware, but that´s why we have graphics options. And no, the demand is nowhere near 3x

 

Though I have to agree that the poll with 50 participants doesn´t say much.

In DCS can you just set every option to max or ultra and get a consistent 90 fps no matter what situation? Because that’s the definition of “running well”.

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

4K is increasingly popular in monitor gaming), which means it requires either dropping the graphics settings or using a better rig. 

Again there are many graphics cards capable of running games today at 4K ultra settings and 60+FPS. I don’t think any system money can buy will run DCS with all settings maxed in VR at a the headset’s refresh rate of 90fps in any situation. When I say “good performance” that’s what this means. Not spending weeks fiddling with the game every time it gets an update. 

Edited February 6, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Eugel]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

In DCS can you just set every option to max or ultra and get a consistent 90 fps no matter what situation? Because that’s the definition of “running well”.

I can´t do that in 2D either.

And that´s just your arbitrary definition of "running well"
I don´t see why anything can only "run well" on maxed details.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Eugel

[SharpeXB]

1 minute ago, Eugel said:

I can´t do that in 2D either.

Perhaps not but plenty of PCs can do that with DCS running in 2D. I don’t think any system, no matter the cost can do that in VR. 

[Hiob]

I find it amusing, that nowadays everybody* seem to be only satisfied with "max settings". 

As long as I am gaming (and gfx settings are a thing - because that only started waaay later), I always needed to find a spot somewhere between 50 and 80% fidelity. Only lately when I progressed in my career and can afford top tier hardware, I find myself somewhere between 85 and 95%.

People should really adjust their expectations of where the baseline is. "All maxed out" isn't the baseline. And when you set a reasonable baseline - suddenly VR becomes a very playable option - even on non-highend hardware.

Especially for VR designed games simply don't bother with certain features of modern gfx - but you can just as easily deactivate them in DCS.

Still: VR isn't the "be all, end all"-solution (yet at least). And performance isn't by far the only reason to skip it for now. For me e.g. it is the cumbersome and uncomfortable use of VR-Headsets more than the performance penalty, that keeps me from using it.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Hiob

[SharpeXB]

33 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I find it amusing, that nowadays everybody* seem to be only satisfied with "max settings"

Well of course you don’t need max settings. But I’m trying to compare apples to apples. Any game or system can be made to perform a certain way by adjusting the settings. The problem is that it’s one thing to lower your settings on a $500 machine. It’s another to lower them on a $5,000 one, plus a $1,000 HMD. In order to get DCS running well (at the HMD refresh rate without reprojection etc) that likely means running such low settings that people don’t find that appealing given what they’ve spent. Hence all the suffering and crazy system tweaking. Bottom line, there are some pretty clear reasons why the majority of players run these games in 2D. It’s very unlike the VR usage here is 70%.
Unless there’s other actual data, the Navigraph figure of 16% for flight sims seems believable. The reasons for this should be obvious. It’s simply better, cheaper and easier to run 2D

[Glide]

Yeah, a lot of folks get stuck in the "must have highest settings with highest FPS" trap.  I chased that white rabbit for many years as well.  Now, I have all my sims set to lower graphics settings resulting in smoother flight experience.  My goal is to completely forget about the FPS counter.  My millennial son plays all his games on the lowest settings, and even I find that too extreme.  

[SharpeXB]

49 minutes ago, Glide said:

Yeah, a lot of folks get stuck in the "must have highest settings with highest FPS" trap.  I chased that white rabbit for many years as well.  Now, I have all my sims set to lower graphics settings resulting in smoother flight experience.  My goal is to completely forget about the FPS counter.  My millennial son plays all his games on the lowest settings, and even I find that too extreme.  

The difference between VR and 2D is that lower frame rates are tolerable on a monitor. You can be perfectly good with 30-40 fps depending on the game. In VR such low rates would make you sick. VR needs consistent high frame rates. 

Edited February 6, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Glide]

I find that VR needs frame rates that don't drop.  I can get by with 35fps as long as it doesn't go lower.  This is a tough call because a building or complex airfield will come into view, and you get a spike in frame rates.  I go for just enough eye candy to keep the sim looking correct, but not enough to allow me to notice any drops.  I want to keep the size of the frames small because larger frames take longer to create and process.  I have max fps set to 45 even though I know I can get 60.  Max FPS 35 also works, but the probability of getting a noticeable drop at 35 is higher. 

Once I have things smooth for my hardware, the key is to resist the temptation to reach for higher settings.  Oh, if it was only a bit sharper.  There be dragons here.

[Qcumber]

It would also be interesting to find out why people play VR. Have they drifted into DCS because they like PCVR games (which would include me); have they moved over to VR from previously playing 2d; or are have they always played 2d, have tested VR briefly with bad experiences, and decided VR is not for them. Or any number of other possibilities. Quantitative data such as these need qualifying. 

Edited February 9, 2024 by Qcumber