Received my Winwing... Skywalker

[Islari]

Hello.

I just received my Winwing rudder but I'm very surprised that it is branded as Skywalker. Even in the software it is branded as.

I wonder if they just sent me some pre serial item that will not be updated further

[MustangSally]

Nope, you received the same as everyone else

[Bwaze]

First batches have Skywalker branding, next ones will have Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals, since Winwing changed the name to avoid copyright problems. I imagine name in Windows could change with new firmware? We will see.

 

[Nyxea]

I received mine today too with the same skywalker branding so as above it seems to be the first batch

Did you manage to find a way to remove the deadzone in the dampening provided by the damper? Specifically when changing direction there's a noticeable deadzone before the dampening is engaged again, presumable down the the plunger inside compressing the opposite way I guess?

To be clear to anyone else, there's no deadzone in the yaw axis itself just the damper effect, regardless of current position when changing direction

[MustangSally]

Mines fine

[Bwaze]

6 hours ago, Nyxea said:

I received mine today too with the same skywalker branding so as above it seems to be the first batch

Did you manage to find a way to remove the deadzone in the dampening provided by the damper? Specifically when changing direction there's a noticeable deadzone before the dampening is engaged again, presumable down the the plunger inside compressing the opposite way I guess?

To be clear to anyone else, there's no deadzone in the yaw axis itself just the damper effect, regardless of current position when changing direction

Is there a “free play” in the damper due to some wiggle room in attachment - either at end collars or in the collar around the damper cylinder? Is there “free play” in damper if you detach it and try to move it by hand? Mine doesn’t have any free play (but it has some “stiction”). 
 

These cheap dampers are copies of motorcycle steering dampers that originally cost $300, not $15, so people usually say “you get what you pay for” if you complain about lack of smoothness, free play, longevity problems…

[Nyxea]

8 hours ago, Bwaze said:

Is there a “free play” in the damper due to some wiggle room in attachment - either at end collars or in the collar around the damper cylinder? Is there “free play” in damper if you detach it and try to move it by hand? Mine doesn’t have any free play (but it has some “stiction”). 
 

These cheap dampers are copies of motorcycle steering dampers that originally cost $300, not $15, so people usually say “you get what you pay for” if you complain about lack of smoothness, free play, longevity problems…

That was the first thing I checked but no it’s all tight, as you say it’ll be variations in cheap dampers as I’ve now seen the same issues from people with the MFG pedals with dampers as well, they’re likely the same or very similar parts.

It could be air inside the cylinder, I’ll look to see if it’s serviceable at some point and perhaps top up or change the oil completely.
 

 

[01G8R]

Having used these dampers in many projects I believe this "dead zone" feeling in the damper comes from movement in the seals as it changes directions.  You can make it a little better by putting some silicone oil on the shaft, but it won't go away completely.  The only way I've found to completely eliminate it is to get another damper and keep getting a different one until you find one that is tight.  I've tried multiple different brands from Amazon and haven't found any that are reliably tight.  I have completely disassembled these dampers and this feeling isn't serviceable because it has to do with the tolerances on the shaft, body and seals.  My WW pedals showed up today and there is a little bit of "dead zone" in the damper.  In use I haven't found this to be too much of an issue.  A brake shoe style damper eliminates this issue and I wish more pedal manufacturers would implement this like Virpil has done with the Torq pedals. 

[MustangSally]

Have the same dampner on both my MFG and Orion pedals. All smooth throughout their range.

[Islari]

Nop, same problem here, I found that using the Skywalker is not enoughly precise when fine tuning the rudder to aim in Mi-24 due to this kind of dead zone

[MustangSally]

Remove the dampner and retest

[LtBlackAdder9A]

Not tried Mi-24 yet but on Huey I will try to rise sensitivity. To much travel  when hover needed. 6 years flying with finger controled rudder, now learning to fly again.
Also recived Skywalker version (Europe) and there was ded zone in damper but reason was loose front bolt. What i dont like is pretty big sensor dead zone.
I have a 1 inch free play before RZ in SimAppPro start to react. Can someone confirm that please.

[Bwaze]

10 hours ago, LtBlackAdder9A said:

Not tried Mi-24 yet but on Huey I will try to rise sensitivity. To much travel  when hover needed. 6 years flying with finger controled rudder, now learning to fly again.
Also recived Skywalker version (Europe) and there was ded zone in damper but reason was loose front bolt. What i dont like is pretty big sensor dead zone.
I have a 1 inch free play before RZ in SimAppPro start to react. Can someone confirm that please.

I haven't tried it yet, but I suppose you can set the deadzone in the SimApp Pro - if you uncheck the "Default" setting, you can enter your own value, even the decimal numbers. But the higher resistance settings on the damper can mean rudder pedals won't perfectly recenter - at higher settings mine don't recenter even with default deadzone, I imagine they are more for a "helicopter mode" - without the spring, without return to center.

Relevant setting, I think it hasn't changed:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/291199-winwing-orion-hotas-review/?do=findComment&comment=4929823

[LtBlackAdder9A]

My shame not to see "Dead zone setting". Now ill try at 0 dead zone. Again tightened all damper bolts and pushed sleeve close to valve as possible.
Thanks Bwaze 

[Islari]

Thanks. Will try it tomorrow

[BuzzU]

Do these pedals have brakes? I see no mention of them.

[MustangSally]

Yes

[BuzzU]

Good. Might as well get them and keep everything WW.

[twopac187]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:17 PM, BuzzU said:

Good. Might as well get them and keep everything WW.

They are pretty great to be honest.

[mason.zh]

I just placed the pre-order for this pedal with the damper kit included. I mainly fly helicopters so I guess I will use the rudder pedals without spring, but I've never used any rudder pedals with damper before. Is the damper kit worth it and will make the rudder feel better when using without the spring? 

 

[twopac187]

The damper increases the resistance when manipulating the rudders. I find it pretty helpful for finer movements because I feel like I have more control over my inputs. I had the Thrustmaster T-flight pedals before and those had the exact opposite problem, they had nearly zero resistance so I felt like I had very little control over my rudder movements besides determining which rudder was moving forward, it was very hard to make precise adjustments needed for taking off and landing in a jet, and I can only imagine how difficult it would be for helicopters. 

The spring that gets removed for rotary flight does provide a bit of resistance, but it seems like its primary purpose is to affect a return to neutral state (the zero position). The damper provides an adjustable amount of resistance that is very nice to have for fixed wing, and I can imagine it would allow for more precise control for rotary wing flight as well.

[mason.zh]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:11 PM, twopac187 said:

The damper increases the resistance when manipulating the rudders. I find it pretty helpful for finer movements because I feel like I have more control over my inputs. I had the Thrustmaster T-flight pedals before and those had the exact opposite problem, they had nearly zero resistance so I felt like I had very little control over my rudder movements besides determining which rudder was moving forward, it was very hard to make precise adjustments needed for taking off and landing in a jet, and I can only imagine how difficult it would be for helicopters. 

The spring that gets removed for rotary flight does provide a bit of resistance, but it seems like its primary purpose is to affect a return to neutral state (the zero position). The damper provides an adjustable amount of resistance that is very nice to have for fixed wing, and I can imagine it would allow for more precise control for rotary wing flight as well.

Thank you so much for the input! That pre-order waiting list is killing me...

[BuzzU]

I just got around to ordering the pedals. Should have them soon. I held off getting the damper. I want to see what they feel like without it first.

Got to love free shipping and no tax. Total price charged to me is $304. Same deal with the HOTAS.

[Jarrod]

I just assembled mine last night.  Wow.  Haven't used them yet, but build quality and feel is off the charts.  Worth the dough and then some.  I thought I wanted the Thrustmaster pendular model for awhile, but at nearly half the cost, Winwing has cut Thrustmaster off at the knees. 

The damper version was only like $30-$40 more?  I just went with it, it's already a bargain for what you get.  I'm sure it's easy to add later though.

Edited February 28, 2024 by Jarrod

[BuzzU]

Yeah, the damper is only $41, so it seems to be the same price overall for both with the damper.

I tried the TM pedals a couple of years ago and didn't like them.

 

I should have got the pedals yesterday but the package was delayed. We had a bunch of snow. It's on the truck for delivery, so I should get them later today for sure. I'm sure i'll like them.