F-22 production will end at 187 aircraft

[X-man]

So has it been settled for sure that the F-22 is being terminated or is it still in discussion? If yes, could it be restarted again after the shutdown?

[GGTharos]

It is unlikely it will be restarted again, given the cost of doing so. They are working on a tender for the 6-th gen air superiority fighter instead.

[topol-m]

It is unlikely it will be restarted again, given the cost of doing so. They are working on a tender for the 6-th gen air superiority fighter instead.

 

Hope this time Northrop wins.

[GGTharos]

If you are talking about the YF-23 thing, the USAF made the correct decision. A lot of what was in the YF-23 is actually used in the F-22 right now. Some of the major reasons the YF-23 lost, afaik:

 

It used too much, and too new technology. This was a large risk factor compared to YF-22 (F-22 now uses this technology. This refers to composites etc, at least)

 

The payload was smaller than the F-22's.

 

Less maneuverable.

[topol-m]

If you are talking about the YF-23 thing, the USAF made the correct decision. A lot of what was in the YF-23 is actually used in the F-22 right now. Some of the major reasons the YF-23 lost, afaik:

 

It used too much, and too new technology. This was a large risk factor compared to YF-22 (F-22 now uses this technology. This refers to composites etc, at least)

 

The payload was smaller than the F-22's.

 

Less maneuverable.

 

Well lessons learned, experience gathered so i keep my fingers crossed for a Northrop win this time, if they present a great aircraft which i don`t doubt they will.

[Pilotasso]

We will be old men when they finaly realy jumpstart a 6 gen fighter project.

[muamshai]

They can give the contracts to Russians and Chinese. Cheaper to build. Everyone is happy

 

:D

[EtherealN]

Well muamshai, for how long will it be cheaper to build? A contract for a completely new system might very well mean that series production is 20-25 years away, and if Russia and China maintains their economic growth with anything remotely resembling previous pace, it won't be cheaper by then.

 

And that is besides the point that a local system, even if nominally more expensive, has greater odds of the money staying in the economy. That factor is lessened by the ever more globalized economy, but the cash flow between the US and Russia/China is much smaller than it would be for, say, US and EU.

 

It's one of those classic economic stumbling blocks where it makes more short-term sense to stay within one's "own" economy, even if cross-border trade would long-term give better benefits.

 

That aside, I do realize you were a bit toungue in cheek. :P

[Vault]

No, TDMA alone does not solve that problem. It's just a way for multiple users to share the same channel. How you will combine data from those slots is up to the upper layers of the protocol. See into the difference between TCP and UDP.

 

I've been busy with RL so excuse the late reply nscode. I understand enough about TCP and UDP to get by, IIRC UDP is utilised when data reliability and handshaking isn't an issue, I would of thought the use of UDP was far to unreliable for a critical network. I was under the impression that the TDMA transmission slots that TDMA utilises are filled with data that is transmitted bit by bit, is this incorrect? or are TDMA's slots filled with packets of TCP or UDP data?.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Vault

[RvETito]

No comment, T-38

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmDj3mFrXQ

[GGTharos]

Here's your comments:

 

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-12227-postdays-0-postorder-asc.html

 

My personal favorite:

 

This indicates to me that the USAF could get by with 187 T-38's.

Edited April 21, 2009 by GGTharos

[Wilde]

I bet every single USAF pilot has been training WVR engagements and I also bet none of them has a completely clean sheet. That's just a totally unrealistic thing to expect, no matter which plane they're in.

[GGTharos]

Yep, that's why the USAF is shooting for BVR superiority and buying the merge only if you must.

 

In any case, all the vid shows is some training :) I'm actually more interested in the HUD and how well the Talon seems to keep its energy :)

[Wilde]

As you mention the HUD, I seem to fail spotting the G-meter. I thought this would be shown in HUD for US aircraft. Or isn't it?

[GGTharos]

Look at the number right above the airspeed scale.

[Wilde]

Ah thanks.

[GGTharos]

Another interesting thing is the fuel quantity above the altitude scale :D

[Pilotasso]

No comment, T-38

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmDj3mFrXQ

 

In my countries airforce F-16's can be limited in G and thrust to simulate Mig-21's and Mig-23's (29's on full features) and then let the students get on the merge to teach them the ropes.

 

This video shows a similar training exercise (T-38's in the practice plane for noobs). Whoever is implying an F-22 can be beaten by a T-38 in real combat is kidding himself.

 

First of all it is unnarmed :D

Edited April 22, 2009 by Pilotasso

[EtherealN]

Whoever is implying an F-22 can be beaten by a T-38 in real combat is kidding himself.

 

A bit too categorical a statement, that. A good pilot in a crap plane can beat a crap pilot in a good plane. And do enough combats and it will happen. Tech is never a substitute for training, but tech can give you enough of an initial advantage so that along with the training you will reliably beat the enemy. But doing something reliably doesn't mean you always do it.

 

I mean, posit a fullscale (but non-nuclear) war between the US and China. I wouldn't at all be surprised if at some point a J-7 kills a Raptor. I would be surprised if it happens several times, but there is nothing in the Raptor that makes it impossible. The Chinese have a lot of those things and no matter how improbable the laws of really big numbers tend to make it happen anyway. :P

[DarkWanderer]

This video shows a similar training exercise (T-38's in the practice plane for noobs). Whoever is implying an F-22 can be beaten by a T-38 in real combat is kidding himself.

Actually, this video shows an F-22 pilot trainee being "hit" by aggressor T-38. The only problem was that this WVR scenario started with Talon on the Raptor's six.

 

When they do DOGFIGHTING training, they don't use BVR (beyond visual range) capabilities the F-22 has because it would end the fight too early. They set up the fights intentionally to make the F-22 have massive disadvantages. They are using a legacy aircraft like the T-38 to test out every possible scenario and find weaknesses in the F-22 to develop proper tactics.

 

This particular fight was fixed from the beginning, where they started the fight with the T-38 already on the F-22's 6 o'clock.

 

Nothing changes, but you're wrong ;)

[Wilde]

I have been using Google Earth tonight and found out, that you can actually see some 20+ Raptors on parking at Langley AFB. ( 37° 4'54.03"N / 76°21'7.07"W )

 

That's funny. I always thought they were "hiding" this stuff in public media like that. Look at the airports in Sevastopol or Ramstein for example. There the pictures got edited most certainly.

[EtherealN]

If you want to see some proper hiding of aircraft, have a look at the Israeli airbases. If you don't know what to look for you can get the impression that there are no hangars and no aircraft - until you notice some funny shadows on what first looked like a regular grass lawn. They seem to have some pretty nice grass-covered bunkers next to a lot of the taxiways that are a lot better hidden than what you'd get with more standard revetments and don't seem to be similar to the grass-topped bunkers we have on the airbases in DCS.

 

My favourites are North Korean air bases though - they still have lots of stuff out in the open, but very often you can also see a taxiway just heading out into nowhere and ending abrubptly - with just a small shadow to give away the fact that it's a tunnel entrance.

[nscode]

I have been using Google Earth tonight and found out, that you can actually see some 20+ Raptors on parking at Langley AFB. ( 37° 4'54.03"N / 76°21'7.07"W )

 

That's funny. I always thought they were "hiding" this stuff in public media like that. Look at the airports in Sevastopol or Ramstein for example. There the pictures got edited most certainly.

 

Maybe those are inflatable Rapors ;)

[EtherealN]

Maybe those are inflatable Rapors ;)

 

:megalol:

[RvETito]

Another Class A incident (damage cost more than 1 million $) with the F-22- during taxi in Tyndall AFB an USAF F-22 hits a canadian CF-18. This has happened in tuesday.