Creeping forward or backwards in a hover? (How to hover perfectly with ADI in DOP Mode)

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

When in a higher altitude manual hover with a bit of ground speed (I usually check the GS shown on the 'iPad'), is looking out the window at the ground the only way to tell if you are sliding forward or backwards? (There's the artificial horizon indicator but I find it's not that helpful when the GS is slow.) 

Edited August 9, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Lace]

No doppler on the Gazelle, I just look out of the window.  How high are you hovering?

[Hiob]

Well, looking outside is THE best way to determine a stable hover. Especially in a chopper with such good visibility.

[MAXsenna]

No doppler on the Gazelle, I just look out of the window.  How high are you hovering?

Actually... The NADIR can show you.

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When in a higher altitude manual hover with a bit of ground speed (I usually check the GS shown on the 'iPad'), is looking out the window at the ground the only way to tell if you are sliding forward or backwards? (There's the artificial horizon indicator but I find it's not that helpful when the GS is slow.) 

You can turn the NADIR to show you. But the best way is to use ADI. Turn the knob all the way clockwise, and just follow the needles.
Cheers!

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[Lace]

Confession time...

I've been flying the Gazelle for years without ever really using the NADIR.  I recently started looking at it, but I find the Gazelle is very much a VFR, map and stopwatch type of aircraft.  Most missions are <30minute combat radius.  Its hard to get lost.

[Jenrick]

If you have less than 10 way points the NADIR is stupid simple.  Just push the number button for tht waypoint you want and follow the needle on the ADI.  It has a lot of other features but that way you can navigate in IFR if you had to.

[Lace]

1 hour ago, Jenrick said:

If you have less than 10 way points the NADIR is stupid simple.  Just push the number button for tht waypoint you want and follow the needle on the ADI.  It has a lot of other features but that way you can navigate in IFR if you had to.

Oh, I know the nav basics, it's just I find it's generally not that necessary in game.  I have a little LHS time in the Gazelle IRL, and that was also all done looking out the window.  Generally very short VMC flights over known terrain though.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:49 PM, MAXsenna said:

Actually... The NADIR can show you.

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You can turn the NADIR to show you. But the best way is to use ADI. Turn the knob all the way clockwise, and just follow the needles.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Thanks. I tried the NADIR but not sure what indicated slipping forward/backwards. That said, I went back to looking at the ADI and paid attention to the slip ball and roll arrows. That helped with the side slip. I still look at the tablet GS to gauge forward/backwards slip. I just try to bring the GS down to about 5knts. I can roughly tell if it's slipping forward or backwards from the way the GS increases or decreases when I pitch forward or backwards though I could never get the GS to reach or pass zero. I thought at some point between slipping forward and backwards, the GS would pass through zero. I guess there was still some side slip.  

Edited March 14, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[MAXsenna]

Thanks. I tried the NADIR but not sure what indicated slipping forward/backwards. That said, I went back to looking at the ADI and paid attention to the slip ball and roll arrows. That helped with the side slip. I still look at the tablet GS to gauge forward/backwards slip. I just try to bring the GS down to about 5knts. I can roughly tell if it's slipping forward or backwards from the way the GS increases or decreases when I pitch forward or backwards though I could never get the GS to reach or pass zero. I thought at some point between slipping forward and backwards, the GS would pass through zero. I guess there was still some side slip.  

The NADIR can tell you GS. Did you turn the ADI dial to Dop?

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[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 3/14/2024 at 1:00 PM, MAXsenna said:

The NADIR can tell you GS. Did you turn the ADI dial to Dop?

Ah ok, I learned something new today. So I turned the ADI dial to DOP (Update: English pit erroneously labels it as WPT. When mouse cursor hovers over knob, tooltip shows DOP.) and the ADI vert and horiz grey bars needed to form a cross at the center, then I am in perfect hover position with 0 knts GS (though a slight roll might be required as can be seen in slip ball indicator).

But what is DOP? Doppler? The English pit and Chuck's Guide translates it to NADIR Waypoint. However, even if I am pointed away from my current selected waypoint (as shown in HSI), how is it that I am still able to get those grey lines to form a cross in the center of the ADI (when I want to be in a perfect hover). Should not the grey vertical line be off to one side if I am not pointed at my current waypoint? (Update: As indicated here, I believe the English pit and Chuck's Guide should make the correction to Doppler instead of Waypoint.)

Edited August 9, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[MAXsenna]

Ah ok, I learned something new today. So I turned the ADI dial to DOP and the ADI vert and horiz grey bars needed to form a cross at the center, then I am in perfect hover position with 0 knts GS (though a slight roll might be required as can be seen in slip ball indicator). But what is DOP Doppler? The English pit and Chuck's Guide translates it to NADIR Waypoint. However, even if I am pointed away from my current selected waypoint (as shown in HSI), how is it that I am still able to get those grey lines to form a cross in the center of the ADI (when I want to be in a perfect hover). Should not the grey vertical line be off to one side if I am not pointed at my current waypoint?

Well, then the English pit and Chuck's guide are incorrect. I use the original French. (To be honest, if you read the manual once, there is no need for an English pit IMHO ).
I'm on my cell, so the image seems low-res. Cam? Follow the needle to point where the VIvianne is pointing. Very handy when flying in both SP and MP. ADF? Have to check that when I get home, but I think that is the one for NADIR points. And last one is the doppler, even if it was said in a post above, that the Gazelle don't have one. I have no idea how it works. Need to check the manual again.
Happy, you found it out, and I can now see why people get confused if guides and pits are incorrect/out of date.
Cheers!

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[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Did some internet searching. I'm no pilot but this (DOPPLER pg 118 which references Fig. 4.1.10 on pg 131) seems to describe what DCS Gazelle's ADI is doing in DOP (Doppler) mode. If correct, then the grey vertical line represents the L/R velocity while the horizontal line represents fore/aft velocity. They seem to work that way in the sim such that when the lines form a cross in the ADI's center, I am in a hover with zero GS (as mentioned above). Chuck's Guide mentions Doppler Sensor, Doppler Radar with regard to the NADIR. I think turning the ADI dial to DOP uses the NADIR's Doppler system?

Edited March 14, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Evg85]

14 минут назад, GrEaSeLiTeNiN сказал:

Did some internet searching. I'm no pilot but this (DOPPLER pg 118 which references Fig. 4.1.10 on pg 131) seems to describe what DCS Gazelle's ADI is doing in DOP (Doppler) mode. If correct, then the grey vertical line represents the L/R velocity while the horizontal line represents fore/aft velocity. They seem to work that way in the sim such that when the lines form a cross in the ADI's center, I am in a hover with zero GS (as mentioned above). Chuck's Guide mentions Doppler Sensor, Doppler Radar with regard to the NADIR. I think turning the ADI dial to DOP uses the NADIR's Doppler system?

 

This is true. It works similarly to the Doppler DISS system of the Mi-8 helicopter