Does anyone know the 3 laser codes used by the KA-50 for the Kh-25?

[Kappa-131st]

Does anyone know the 3 laser codes used by the KA-50 for the Kh-25?

I want to try budy lasing with Su-25 T, or use JTAC soldier with FAC mission, or try to use lua function : 

Spot Object Spot.createLaser(Object Source , Vec3 localRef , Vec3 point , number laseCode)

The objective is to create a laser designation for the Kh-25 ML.
But there is no documentation on the laser codes used by the KA-50. There is a 3-position rotary button in the cockpit to change the laser code of the KA-50, without knowing which laser codes are used. @ED, can you give us some feedback?

Is budy lasering possible:
 - Between devices of different coalitions
 - Between Russian aircraft (such as the Su-25 and the KA-50)?
Buddy lasing is already possible between KA-50 knowing the Kamov laser codes would allow us to carry out tests between different devices

[razo+r]

Have you tried the default code of 1113?

[Kappa-131st]

Yes; I have try 111, 1112 & 1113 with Spot.createLaser()
It does not work

[NeedzWD40]

Ka-50 uses a different system that only works with other Ka-50s. Further, the 1113 code for FC3 aircraft no longer guides weapons like Kh-25ML, though the aircraft gunsight/HUD will still indicate laser position.

[Kappa-131st]

20 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Ka-50 uses a different system that only works with other Ka-50s. Further, the 1113 code for FC3 aircraft no longer guides weapons like Kh-25ML, though the aircraft gunsight/HUD will still indicate laser position.

It was a shame that ED didn't make the possibility to do budylasing with other craft, JTAC unit with FAC mission or Su-25.

Any moderator can explain more about that? Does ED have any plan to improve budylasing between KA-50 and other craft?

Edited April 7, 2024 by Kappa-131st

[zerO_crash]

In Soviet/Russian tactics, the early systems had proprietary laser codes, as helicopter units (army) and planes (jets), never really communicated together. Having the same laser codes, would thus introduce the possibility of misguiding weaponry.

 

Asking to add something that is not realistic, will not work. It seems like you should fly western aircraft, based on how you wish to use the systems. 

[Kappa-131st]

15 hours ago, zerO_crash said:

In Soviet/Russian tactics, the early systems had proprietary laser codes, as helicopter units (army) and planes (jets), never really communicated together.

In Soviet tactic, attack helicopter are considered like attack plane (like Su-25)...
But this does not mean that their laser codes are incompatible, especially for 2 devices of the same generation which share so many components in common, as well as a lot of weaponry. The Su-25T is equipped with the Shkval as well. It is not unthinkable to say that the laser designator of the 2 devices is very close or identical. It is not because the Soviets did not practice JTAC or budy lasing that their equipment was incompatible...
Give me your source which states that these two laser designators are incompatible, I would be curious to read it...

15 hours ago, zerO_crash said:

Asking to add something that is not realistic, will not work.

After BS3, and its 3-pylon wings, its WMS on the ABRIS (a Finnish civil computer mounted on a prototype to add a Glonass), this excuse is no longer legit.
If ED break realism for gameplay, I think, they can give us the possibility to make budylasing with Sukhoi who have the SAME missile (Kh-25 ML). It is probably much more realist than the IGLA on KA-50... And a much more interesting addition for coordination between 2 players who can then work together and not separately. Many people forget this, but DCS is also a game, the objective is to make players work together, this is how the fun of this game begin : Coordination & synchronisation...

15 hours ago, zerO_crash said:

Having the same laser codes, would thus introduce the possibility of misguiding weaponry.

Only for Kh-25ML weapon (Vikhr work different) and it is yet the case when you have many KA-50 (there is 3 possible laser code on the KA-50 to avoid misguiding weaponry, we just don't know the code of the laser...)

Edited April 12, 2024 by Kappa-131st

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

But is the Laser Code Selector in the BS3 working as intended or not implemented? (I don't play MP so I have not tested this.)
Thanks

[Kappa-131st]

It worked only between KA-50 and don't have any "code" (like "1688")
(There is a button on the cockpit with 3 positions for laser code, but it is not a laser code who work with other aircraft)

Edited September 14, 2024 by Kappa-131st

[zerO_crash]

On 9/13/2024 at 11:36 AM, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

But is the Laser Code Selector in the BS3 working as intended or not implemented? (I don't play MP so I have not tested this.)
Thanks

They work separately between Ka-50s. It is however a completely different system to the western one, and it also is programmed as such. You cannot guide munitions for western weaponry, and vice versa. 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

2 hours ago, zerO_crash said:

They work separately between Ka-50s. It is however a completely different system to the western one, and it also is programmed as such. You cannot guide munitions for western weaponry, and vice versa. 

I am a bit out of touch with the BS3. So, in MP buddy lasing between two BS3s, am I right to say it does not matter which laser knob selector position is used since you can't select a 'code' for the Kh-25ML anyway?

[zerO_crash]

3 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

I am a bit out of touch with the BS3. So, in MP buddy lasing between two BS3s, am I right to say it does not matter which laser knob selector position is used since you can't select a 'code' for the Kh-25ML anyway?

It's irrelevant of the armament used, but no, it does matter in which position you have the laser code knob. Anything else would point to a bug.

 

EDIT: Let me specify. An actual procedure would most definitely require you to set a specific laser code, that as a means for the pilot to make a dedicated step towards confirmation pre-employment and avoiding a mistake made. As to the mechanical launch, it shouldn't actually matter (unless DCS). Kh-25ML was never tested on the Ka-50 as far as publically accessible information is concerned. It was stated as a possibility, and while ED did guesswork here, they did so on a very strong basis. The basic lock-on procedure in question, is conceptually no different than any other laser-/heat- seeker in the early stages of operation (until lock-on is achieved). As such, should a Ka-50 customer ever want this functionality, it would most likely be implemented in the way heatseekers are - HUD represents a boresighted seeker of the individual armament on each pylon. Pilot, then, steers seekerhead (HUD) towards expected illumination and waits for it start tracking. While the workings of a Kh-25ML (just as any armament) depend very much on the onboard equipment, Ka-50 provides enough for the missile to launch and engage an effective lofting profile (range from laser range finder is used for that). As an example, Klen-PS from Su-17/-25 series of aircraft allowed the missile to be fired off bore by 12* in azimuth and (+6*) - (-30*) in elevation. In any case, the seekers on these missiles, would normally be set by the crew on the ground by the means of physical adjustment on the actual missile. Ka-50 would most definitely not have a deeper integration than basic functionality (as today) in its bort #25 iteration (or any other bort known at the time). A later upgrade, might have changed this, but that is contemporary.

 

Therefore, while you procedurally should set the proper laser code, you technically shouldn't need to.

 

Уголок неба ¦ Х-25

Edited November 12, 2024 by zerO_crash

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Pg 261 Chuck's Guide Kh-25ML procedure + some SP testing: Player's Kh-25 will follow any number (1, 2 or 3) that he selects on his laser code selector knob. Didn't seem to matter. But when buddy lasing between BS3s, I presume both players have to have the same laser code number selected as the missile will follow the code set by the one launching the missile.   

Edited November 12, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN