FC2024 | Kola Development Progress | Virtual Carrier Wing 17

[P1l0t]

29 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

It's hard to imagine that the way you play now in Single Player, where you have a logbook that awards you when you play, would work online. If you achieve enough aerial combat victories in Single Player, you will continuously receive medals. Further thinking about this, if you exit an online server, it wouldn’t be difficult to report to a server how many ground units you have destroyed or how many planes you have shot down. Both take-off and landing are monitored by DCS World, which can inform others of your activities in the common chat. When you leave a server and say you played for 1.5 hours, the results can be linked to your account, sent to a server, and based on that, you can earn XP and credits. For instance, a landing could be worth 10 XP, an air combat victory 100 XP, and destroying a ground unit 50 XP. As you play, you accumulate XP and credits, which you can then redeem in the E-shop. For other companies, this concept has long been effective in attracting new players to the game and motivating veteran players. No one should be offended, but the current concept of DCS World is that you buy a product in the E-shop, and that’s the end. There is no maximum motivation to learn something with the module you bought. This free-to-play approach makes the DCS World attractive and encourages people to play, offering endless possibilities and significant motivation, and making money for the ED in the process!

This idea of mine only applies to FC modules. Fully clickable products should not be mixed in! These fully clickable products must be purchased for real money!

I can tell you that elsewhere, thanks to the fact that there are daily missions, I play there every day. If there wasn't a daily mission, I wouldn't be interested in going there because what's there is boring! Since there is motivation, I still go there and deal with it because I get a reward that I can then use for something!

Think about having a community skin sharing website where you can get skins for all kinds of aircraft. Let's say 5000 XP for a skin and some credits. Let's say you play 5-10 hours for this skin. I think this is a good thing. Or you can get, say, a missile with 3 days of play for your plane. Or you can buy it in the E shop immediately. Someone plays, someone gives money to ED. Both are in ED's interest, I think!

I think that you have to move with the times, and ED and the players benefit from this!

Edited April 27, 2024 by P1l0t

[Qcumber]

48 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

These modules could be purchasable in the E-shop, allowing both new and veteran players to acquire them through XP and credit grinding. This free-to-play model, tied to XP and credits, would incentivize players to engage more with the DCS world, knowing they can earn rewards proposed by ED.

This is not what DCS is about. It's a sim and this would make it an arcade game. 

[P1l0t]

4 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

This is not what DCS is about. It's a sim and this would make it an arcade game. 

So you are saying that the current FC2024 product is completely arcade? Sir this is not so! These FC modules are still part of DCS World and Flaming Cliffs 3 is about the most successful product of ED. This brings newcomers to DCS World, who later buy fully clickable products! There has been nothing new in the FC product for 15 years and redfor fans have a serious demand for additional aircraft. DCS world has been producing quite a lot of NATO products lately!

[Qcumber]

3 hours ago, P1l0t said:

So you are saying that the current FC2024 product is completely arcade? Sir this is not so! These FC modules are still part of DCS World and Flaming Cliffs 3 is about the most successful product of ED. This brings newcomers to DCS World, who later buy fully clickable products! There has been nothing new in the FC product for 15 years and redfor fans have a serious demand for additional aircraft. DCS world has been producing quite a lot of NATO products lately!

That's not what I said. I think that the FC aircraft are important. Its the first module I bought. But using xp to unlock assets does not fit DCS in my opinion. 

Era specific FC modules would be good. e.g. FC cold war, FC modern and FC WW2.

Edited April 27, 2024 by Qcumber

[Dragon1-1]

I suspect that those FC3 aircraft have been done to pay for an art overhaul to the FF modules. It's also a low hanging fruit of sorts, most of the work, including the FM, is already done. Also, those are rather simple aircraft, with only the F-5E having a radar scope, so the controls can afford to be really basic.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

51 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

So you are saying that the current FC2024 product is completely arcade? Sir this is not so! These FC modules are still part of DCS World and Flaming Cliffs 3 is about the most successful product of ED. This brings newcomers to DCS World, who later buy fully clickable products! There has been nothing new in the FC product for 15 years and redfor fans have a serious demand for additional aircraft. DCS world has been producing quite a lot of NATO products lately!

Literally not at all what they were getting at.

An XP and unlock system would not only divert resources from other developmental needs, but it would not be terribly welcomed by most of the playerbase. Not everyone wants to play in simple, competitive match ups. Almost everyone comes to DCS to play with complex systems and fly these things on missions approaching a realistic setting. This is more akin to classic sims, like Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 '46. It gives you all the tools, you learn them, you play the missions it comes with, then you have a mission editor to make your own.

Also, a flight sim has done the whole unlock thing. When IL-2 BoS put weapons liveries, and modifications behind XP walls, everyone hated it. So, they stopped it. If you need unlocks to justify sticking with a game and not the actual experience of the game? You need to ask yourself if you're really enjoying it and finding something that is actually going to keep your attention and deserve your money.

Sure, developers need to "move with the times" but what if the standards include predatory and unfair practices towards the consumer?

As for imagining having a skin sharing website? Imagine no more:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/type-is-skin/apply/

 

Edited April 27, 2024 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[IMGX]

The Kola map is great news, but we have seen almost nothing of this map, just a few photos and two seconds of video. A week after the launch I'm worried... maybe the map has little content or is it like South Atlantic?? We now need to see some video and a low-level helicopter flight.

[P1l0t]

36 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Literally not at all what they were getting at.

An XP and unlock system would not only divert resources from other developmental needs, but it would not be terribly welcomed by most of the playerbase. Not everyone wants to play in simple, competitive match ups. Almost everyone comes to DCS to play with complex systems and fly these things on missions approaching a realistic setting. This is more akin to classic sims, like Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 '46. It gives you all the tools, you learn them, you play the missions it comes with, then you have a mission editor to make your own.

Also, a flight sim has done the whole unlock thing. When IL-2 BoS put weapons liveries, and modifications behind XP walls, everyone hated it. So, they stopped it. If you need unlocks to justify sticking with a game and not the actual experience of the game? You need to ask yourself if you're really enjoying it and finding something that is actually going to keep your attention and deserve your money.

Sure, developers need to "move with the times" but what if the standards include predatory and unfair practices towards the consumer?

As for imagining having a skin sharing website? Imagine no more:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/type-is-skin/apply/

 

 

There are players who have been here for a long time and have no motivation because DCS World is developing in a direction different from what we would expect. Some like this direction, some don't. I have already discussed the Su-35 in other topics, all of its weapons are now available in DCS World. I've seen the Flaming Cliffs Closed Beta tester documentation, Flanker and Fulcrum together total 3 pages, and that's it. There was nothing secret in it, you can find what I saw on the Internet simply by using a Google search. The radar of the Su-35 Bars covers at least 2 pages, it is presented in such detail here on the forum. Growling Sidewinder flies a Su-47 in his latest video on the Youtube channel, and it has 2 large LCD displays and a HUD. I watching the video and ask myself, why didn't ED do this? Others make mods for free, and ED could make money with it because no modern Redfor aircraft has entered DCS World for 15 years. NATO planes are coming off the assembly line.

The website you showed where you can download skins for free, I think ED could also make money with that. I don't think $3 or $5 would be too much for a skin. Anyone who could upload a skin there would receive a skin as a gift, thereby helping ED to achieve success. With the XP system, you could earn additional skins, all you need to do is play or buy one for $5. There could even be an SD resolution skin for cheaper, or a UHD resolution skin for the most demanding, it's either game time or money for ED!

I haven't been motivated by anything for a long time. Unfortunately, I am not attracted to NATO equipment. Not playing anymore and looking for something else is not a good solution. There are many opportunities in DCS World that no one wants to take advantage of. I understand that this is a hardcore simulator, but the fact that MAC takes players away from here does not guarantee that they will come back. Ideas should be invented that encourage people to play and spend money.

There is a free-to-play player who grinds the FC MiG-29M and brags about how happy he is. Then his other 5 friends come to DCS World and immediately buy the FC MiG-29M. ED gets to it $75 immediately, and there could be a bunch of other versions, or if they like one of the fully clickable planes, then $80 per person goes to ED again. What I'm trying to write about has been successful everywhere. If you do the free-to-play concept normally, it won't bother anyone from the hardcore simulators. Meanwhile, DCS World is slowly growing and can achieve success.

I just wanted to share my idea on the forum, FC is the best basis for ED to earn more money and attract players!

40 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

That's not what I said. I think that the FC aircraft are important. Its the first module I bought. But using xp to unlock assets does not fit DCS and in my opinion. 

Era specific FC modules would be good. e.g. FC cold war, FC modern and FC WW2.

You see, you too can write an FC product that could make money for ED or attract players here! The free to play concept keeps the players!

[LuseKofte]

For me more options is just that, more options. I like to have an achievement of getting where I want as realistic as possible. That is why I do DCS. But I do love the SU 25’s

what others do is simply not my business. I will get shot down by them anyway. Full fidelity or not. 

Edited April 27, 2024 by LuseKofte

[LordOrion]

4 hours ago, P1l0t said:

@BIGNEWY @NineLine

Moreover, players may not receive the modules immediately under this model, but they could gradually unlock weapons, skins, and various national versions through grinding.

Implementing this vision would greatly enhance the appeal and player base of DCS World, leading to increased sales of DCS products and greater success for ED.

 

The day ED will introduce an EXP system to unlock module features in DCS World I will close my account and move to another game (and bet I won't be the only one there to do so).

Edited April 27, 2024 by LordOrion

[LuseKofte]

5 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

I think that the day ED will introduce an EXP system to unlock module features in DCS World I will close my account and move to another game (and bet I won't be the only one there to do so).

I would be sceptical. I don’t play for xp points. But I am an old grumpy fart. I will not easily be connected nor touch xp points with a grip. 
But I am not sure my attitude towards it is representative for this community. 

Edited April 27, 2024 by LuseKofte

[Thamiel]

4 hours ago, P1l0t said:

No one should be offended, but the current concept of DCS World is that you buy a product in the E-shop, and that’s the end.

Thats a remarkable statement. If true, why should I buy it in the first place? I have bought something very complex. Now begins the process of discovering how far I can climb that path.

[P1l0t]

16 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

The day ED will introduce an EXP system to unlock module features in DCS World I will close my account and move to another game (and bet I won't be the only one there to do so).

 

Unfortunately, you didn't read what I wrote carefully enough, so you completely misunderstood. It will be interesting, however, if the NATO equipment runs out of the repertoire, then what source of money will be there to guarantee success, because at some point it will run out. Sellable skins or FC products that cannot be implemented in full fidelity and can be included in DCS World do not in any way interfere with the operation of fully clickable products. Everyone decides for himself whether to allow only FC or fully clickable planes on his server!
This rejection of everything that is new leads nowhere. This is an idea anyway, it doesn't have to be interpreted as arriving tomorrow!

[Qcumber]

@BIGNEWY I think the expansion of FC is a positive move. Are there any plans for further expansion or to develop other FC type modules?

[LordOrion]

13 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

This rejection of everything that is new leads nowhere. This is an idea anyway, it doesn't have to be interpreted as arriving tomorrow!

It not about "rejecting everything", its about "rejecting things that would distort the spirit of the game".

As per ED statemet, DCS is about realism, which means every module (FC included) are developend using real plane official documentation and specs: I don't think that creating a FC level module of (say) the F-22 using wikipedia data fits this definition.

Personally I would prefer the same business model used with A-10C-II and BS, with new versions of an old module (revised, corrected and improved) published some years after the release of the previous one.

Edited April 27, 2024 by LordOrion

[LimePartician]

16 hours ago, corbu1 said:

This morning I was choking

Bro... what?

[P1l0t]

13 minutes ago, Thamiel said:

Thats a remarkable statement. If true, why should I buy it in the first place? I have bought something very complex. Now begins the process of discovering how far I can climb that path.

I've discussed this extensively with my community, and several people have pointed out that there's simply nothing more to do once you've mastered a particular aircraft. There's no dynamic campaign, no goals to strive for. If you don't have a squadron to fly missions with, the game quickly becomes monotonous after mastering the flight and procedures. This is especially true if you're playing solo, making it even more tedious. Consider this, if you've been solely engaged in air combat for 10 years, there's little novelty left to captivate a veteran who has achieved all their goals.

After 2-3 years it won't be boring if someone is a beginner pilot, but after a longer time it will be boring!

That's why I've attempted to formulate goals that can provide ongoing motivation and incentivize players to log in and play, particularly those who might otherwise go days or weeks without touching the game due to boredom. Providing players with goals to strive for will create more challenges and engagement within the game.

I've observed this pattern with several YouTubers as well. They develop a fondness for a specific plane, but after a few years, they find themselves in a position where they've reached a plateau and have nothing new to showcase. Consequently, they become inactive because there's no further goal to pursue.

[LordOrion]

5 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

I've discussed this extensively with my community, and several people have pointed out that there's simply nothing more to do once you've mastered a particular aircraft. There's no dynamic campaign, no goals to strive for.

 

https://github.com/dcs-liberation/dcs_liberation

https://github.com/dcs-retribution/dcs-retribution

There's no need to thank me, mate.

Edited April 27, 2024 by LordOrion

[P1l0t]

6 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

Nem arról van szó, hogy „mindent el kell utasítani”, hanem „ olyan dolgokat utasítunk el, amelyek torzítanák a játék szellemét”.

szól Az ED nyilatkozata szerint a DCS a realizmusról , ami azt jelenti, hogy minden modult (az FC-t is beleértve) valódi sík hivatalos dokumentációja és specifikációi alapján fejlesztenek ki: Nem hiszem, hogy az F-22-ből FC szintű modult kell létrehozni a wikipédia adatok felhasználásával. megfelel ennek a definíciónak.

Én személy szerint az A-10C-II-vel azonos üzleti modellt preferálnám, egy régi modul új verzióival (átdolgozva, javítva és továbbfejlesztve), amely évekkel az előző kiadása után jelent meg.

 

Regarding the fact that an FC-level aircraft has been developed with its documentation, I would recommend this comment in another topic.

Link:

 

[Qcumber]

1 minute ago, P1l0t said:

They develop a fondness for a specific plane, but after a few years, they find themselves in a position where they've reached a plateau and have nothing new to showcase.

I like flying different aircraft of all eras. It will take me a long time to get bored. I wonder if real world pilots get bored of flying an F-16. Or a spitfire. 

DCS has not reached it's potential yet with regards cold war and WW2. There is a lot of interesting stuff coming along. 

 

[LordOrion]

Just now, P1l0t said:

Regarding the fact that an FC-level aircraft has been developed with its documentation, I would recommend this comment in another topic.

Link:

 

Mate, the FC3 Mig-29 is actually the "improved" version of the LOMAC one.

DCS World, and its philosophy, hadn't even been imagined 21 years ago.

Same apply to all other FC3 modules.

[P1l0t]

5 perccel ezelőtt LordOrion azt mondta:

https://github.com/dcs-liberation/dcs_liberation

https://github.com/dcs-retribution/dcs-retribution

Nem kell megköszönni, haver.

I don't know what it is and what to do with it, but Redfor's planes are 20 years behind modern NATO planes and it's not fun to play such campaigns. Even before you bring up servers from the 80s, I wouldn't call it the 80s if an FA-18C or F-16CM flies older missiles with avionics from the 2000s! And we play real scenarios with airplanes from the 80s against modern airplanes that were made after 2000!
This is exactly why I am writing ideas on how to bring a more modern Flanker or Fulcrum into the DCS world, which seems to be in demand!

[Qcumber]

10 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

This is exactly why I am writing ideas on how to bring a more modern Flanker or Fulcrum into the DCS world, which seems to be in demand!

I understand that the main limitations with this is access to the required data which is still regarded as classified. 

[Thamiel]

7 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

I've discussed this extensively with my community, and several people have pointed out that there's simply nothing more to do once you've mastered a particular aircraft. There's no dynamic campaign, no goals to strive for. If you don't have a squadron to fly missions with, the game quickly becomes monotonous after mastering the flight and procedures. This is especially true if you're playing solo, making it even more tedious. Consider this, if you've been solely engaged in air combat for 10 years, there's little novelty left to captivate a veteran who has achieved all their goals.

If you have mastered a particular aircraft in such a way that flying it in a competitive environment is no longer rewarding for you, you move on. Mostly to another aircraft. I've seen this in my community, over and over again. Sometimes, they even come back after a while. I get it, if you are a single player (which I was for only 4 weeks after installing DCS) and have compelling reasons to remain so, this can be a dead end. But that is just the way it is with all single player games. If you have seen it all, it gets boring. Oldest story in the book.

Honestly, I'd like to meet someone who managed to solely engage in DCS for 10 years and still remains clueless of whats more or where to find new challenges.

[LordOrion]

Just now, P1l0t said:

I don't know what it is and what to do with it,

Both are tools to manage a dynamic campaign in DCS: I think you and your friend should give them a try.

3 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

. Even before you bring up servers from the 80s, I wouldn't call it the 80s if an FA-18C or F-16CM flies older missiles with avionics from the 2000s! And we play real scenarios with airplanes from the 80s against modern airplanes that were made after 2000!

In the mission editor there is an option to restrict weapons (and maybe planes modules) at a certain age.

I'm not an MP expert (I use to play SP) but I think that apply to mission created for MP/COOP.

15 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

This is exactly why I am writing ideas on how to bring a more modern Flanker or Fulcrum into the DCS world, which seems to be in demand!

Just out of curiosity, have you tried the JF-17?