Order of Battle for the Kola theatre of operations 1988

[Seaeagle]

On 5/25/2024 at 12:39 PM, Northstar98 said:

We only have the Kirov (but this is the TARKR Pr. 1142.2 Pyotr Velikey), we're missing the Pr. 1142 Kirov (i.e. the original) which has a significantly different air defence systems (SA-N-4 instead of SA-N-9, AK-630 instead of CADS-N-1).

Yes but there is also the 3rd unit Pr. 1144.2 "Kalinin"(later renamed "Admiral Nakhimov") . This was originally commissioned to the 120th brigade of the Soviet Northern Fleet in 1988 and as such fits both the location and timeframe. Its also much closer in design/composition to the "Pyotr Velikiy".

On 5/25/2024 at 12:39 PM, Northstar98 said:

Otherwise we don't have any of them (the only ones that are close are the Krivak II and Grisha V).

Well we have the Slava too - the second unit "Marshal Ustinov" was commissioned with the Northern Fleet in 1986 and was all but identical to the "Moskva" that we have in DCS now.

But yeah a lot of important units missing - most notably(for the timeframe) the Pr. 956 and Pr, 1155 as well as some of the older types still in service at the time. But I don't really agree with the list posted by samba_liten - many of the units on this are really too old for a late 80'ies scenario.

Edited June 3, 2024 by Seaeagle

[Northstar98]

11 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

This was originally commissioned to the 120th brigade of the Soviet Northern Fleet in 1988 and as such fits both the location and timeframe. Its also much closer in design/composition to the "Pyotr Velikiy"

Kalinin still has the SA-N-4 system and not the SA-N-9, it's the same project number but I'd argue that alone is a significant difference from what we have IMO, owing to how much more capable the latter system is, even if both are the Pr. 1142.2 design.

11 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Well we have the Slava too - the second unit "Marshal Ustinov" was commissioned with the Northern Fleet in 1986 and was all but identical to the "Moskva" that we have in DCS now.

Well, I was commenting on the list posted. You are correct of course, the Moskva is essentially identical to Marshal Ustinov of the same period.

Pr. 1155 would also be pretty good, I think they had started to receive SA-N-9 by 1988 (I know they didn't have it initially), though would probably be better if its 85RU missiles were modelled specifically in their secondary ASuW role, seeing as ASW is as good as absent in DCS.

[Silver_Dragon]

My data about Kirov class and Slava:

Project 1144M Admiral Nakhimov (ex-Kalinin) (2022) CGN
Displacement: 24300 std In Class: [1]
Size Class: A/Large In Service: 2022 (1989)
Propulsion: CONAS Crew: 840
Electrn Cnt: 3rd Gen J&D Acoust Cnt: 2nd Gen T
Signature: Large/Noisy Armor Rating: 0

Weapons: Cbt Sys: Gen 6 Automatic
F&A(8)10 UKSK VLS w/80 total 3M14 Kalibr, P-800 Oniks, Tsirkon, 91R2 D, E
F&A(1)12 S-300FM Fort-M w/8 48N6 and 48N6DMK (96 msls total)//F/A 2 30N6 D
A(2)1 AK-130 130mm/70//5P10-01 Puma (3.0) C
PW/SW/P/S/PA/SA(2R&8)6 Pantsir-M w/32 msls //6 1RS1/2 (RA/EO) (6@9.8A) C, D
F(10)1 RBU 12000 (UDAV-1) w/6 salvoes E
P/S(6)2 RBU 1000 Smerch-3 w/8 salvoes E
PS/SS(4)2 Paket-NK w/MTT or M-15 2nd Gen ATT F
Aft Pad(1)3 Ka-27M Helix B
1 Elevator --

Sensors: ES: 2nd Gen
MR-650 Podberezovik T1, Fregat-M2M,
5P20K Poliment, MR-231-1 Pal-N , MR-232 Bussol-S J
MGK-355 Polinom (bow), MGK-355TA Polinom-T, Minotaur A active towed array K
Sigma L

Remarks:
Third unit of Pr. 1144 Orlan (Kirov) class. Estimated configuration after completion of 2014-22 Sevmash refit. CHP armor rating for P-700 magazines, CIC, and Bridge is 7. CHP armor rating for helicopter hangar and Rudder is 5. Fitted with stabilizers. Steam plant is an auxiliary propulsion system that can provide 17 knots max speed. Two salvoes for the RBU 12000 are 1st Gen ATT defense. Paket-NK is a 2nd Gen ATT defense.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 161 322 483 580 644
Surf Speed: 31 23 16 8 0 Sinks

Project 1144.2 Pyotr Velikiy CGN
Displacement: 24610 std In Class: 1
Size Class: A/Large In Service: 1998
Propulsion: CONAS Crew: 840
Electrn Cnt: 3rd Gen J&D Acoust Cnt: 2nd Gen D
Signature: Large/Noisy Armor Rating: 0

Weapons: Cbt Sys: Gen 5 Automatic
PB&SB(20)1 P-700 Granit D
F&A(1)12 S-300FM Fort-M w/8 48N6 and 48N6DMK (96 msls total)//F 1 30N6, A 1 3R41 Volna D
A(1)8 Kinzhal w/8 9M330//3P95 D
A(2)1 AK-130 130mm/70//MR-184 (3.0) C
PW/P/PA/SW/S/SA(2R&8)6 Kortik w/32 msls //6 3P87 (6@8.8A) C, D
F(10)1 RBU 12000 (UDAV-1) w/6 salvoes E
P/S(6)2 RBU 1000 Smerch-3 w/5 salvoes E
P/S(5)2 533mm TT w/5 SET-65K or 83RN Vodopad F, E
Aft Pad(1)3 Ka-27 Helix A B
1 Elevator -

Sensors: ES: 3rd Gen 
MR-800 Flag, MR-750 Fregat-M2, 3 MR-212/201 Vaygach-U, 2 MR-350 Podkat (PS/SS), 3P95 (A) J
MGK-355 Polinom, MGK-355TA Polinom-T K
Legenda, Uspekh, Sea-1144 L
Laser Warning sensor --

Remarks:
Fourth unit of Project 1144 Orlan (Kirov) class. Keel laid as Yuri Andropov, renamed Petr Veliky 27 May 92. Additional F(1)8 Kinzhal w/8 9M330/3P95 provided for in the design but not fitted. Total of 30 torps/msls carried for TT, can carry 53-65K torpedoes. CHP armor rating for P-700 magazines, CIC, and Bridge is 7. CHP armor rating for helicopter hangar and Rudder is 5. Fitted with stabilizers. Steam plant is an auxiliary propulsion system that can provide 17 knots max speed. Two salvoes for the RBU 12000 are 1st Gen ATT defense. Northern Fleet.
• Sep 15 - May 16: Refitted, MR-231-3 Vaygach added.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 162 325 487 584 649
Surf Speed: 31 23 16 8 0 Sinks

Project 1144.2 Admiral Nakhimov (ex-Kalinin) CGN
Displacement: 24300 std In Class: [1]
Size Class: A/Large In Service: 1989
Propulsion: CONAS Crew: 840
Electrn Cnt: 3rd Gen J&D Acoust Cnt: 2nd Gen T
Signature: Large/Noisy Armor Rating: 0

Weapons: Cbt Sys: Gen 4 Semi-Automatic 
PB&SB(20)1 P-700 Granit D 
F&A(1)12 S-300F Fort w/8 5V55RD//2 3R41 Volna D
PS/SS(2)2 Osa-MA w/20 msls//2 MPZ-301 Baza D
A(2)1 AK-130 130mm/70//MR-184 (3.0) C
PW/SW/P/S/PA/SA(2R&8)6 Kortik w/32 msls //6 3P87 (6@8.8A) C, D
F(10)1 RBU 12000 (UDAV-1) w/6 salvoes) E
P/S(6)2 RBU 1000 Smerch-3 w/8 salvoes E
P/S(5)2 533mm TT w/w/5 SET-65M or 83RN Vodopad F, E
Aft Pad(1)3 Ka-27 Helix A, 2 Ka-25 Hormone B B
1 Elevator --

Sensors: ES: 2nd Gen
MR-800 Flag, MR-750 Fregat-M2, 3 MR-212/201 Vaygach-U, 2 MPZ-301 Baza (PS/SS) J
MGK-355 Polinom, MGK-355TA Polinom-T K
Legenda, Uspekh, Sea-1144 L

Remarks:
Kalinin. Third unit of Project 1144 Orlan (Kirov) class. Provision for A(1)8 Kinzhal w/8 9M330//F/3P95, but never fitted. A total of 30 weapons carried for the TT, can carry 53-65K torpedoes. CHP armor rating for Metel and P-700 magazines, CIC, and Bridge is 7. CHP armor rating for Helicopter hangar and Rudder is 5. Fitted with stabilizers. Steam plant is an auxiliary propulsion system that can provide 17 knots max speed. Assigned to the Northern Fleet.
• 1988: Experienced problems with one of the reactor cores since commissioning.
• 27 May 92: Kalinin renamed Admiral Nakhimov.
• 1998: No longer capable of going to sea.
• 1999: Docked at Sevmash shipyard awaiting repairs. Nuclear fuel removed 2008.
• Early 2014: Began mid-life refit and modernization at Sevmash shipyard, listed separately.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 161 322 483 580 644
Surf Speed: 31 23 16 8 0 Sinks

Project 1144.2 Admiral Lazarev (Ex-Frunze) CGN
Displacement: 24300 std In Class: [1]
Size Class: A/Large In Service: 1983
Propulsion: CONAS Crew: 692
Electrn Cnt: 3rd Gen J&D Acoust Cnt: 2nd Gen T
Signature: Large/Noisy Armor Rating: 0

Weapons: Cbt Sys: Gen 4 Semi-Automatic
PB&SB(2)10 P-700 Granit D
F&A(1)12 S-300 Fort w/8 5V55R//2 3R41 Volna D
P/S(2)2 Osa-MA w/20 msls//2 MPZ-301 Baza D
F(12)1 RBU 6000 Smerch-2 w/6 salvoes E
P/S(6)2 RBU 1000 Smerch-3 w/4 salvoes E
A(2)1 AK-130 130mm/70//MR-184 (3.0) C
PW/SW/PA/SA(R)8 AK-630 30mm//4 MR-123 (4@8.8) C
P/S(4)2 533mm TT w/4 SET-65M or 83RN Vodopad F, E
Aft Pad(1)2 Ka-27PL Helix A, 1 Ka-25Ts Hormone B B
1 Elevator --

Sensors: ES: 2nd Gen
MR-800 Flag, MR-710M Fregat-M, 3 MR-212/201 Vaygach-U, 2 MPZ-301 Baza (PS/SS) J
MGK-355 Polinom, MGK-355TA Polinom-T K
Legenda, Uspekh, Sea-1144 L

Remarks:
Second unit of Pr. 1144 Orlan (Kirov) class. Provision for A(1)8 Kinzhal w/8 9M330//F/3P95, but never fitted. Total of 30 torps/msls carried, can carry 53-65K torpedoes. CHP armor rating for P-700 magazines, CIC, and Bridge is 7. CHP armor rating for Helicopter hangar and Rudder is 5. Fitted with stabilizers. Steam plant is an auxiliary propulsion system that can provide 17 knots max speed. Assigned to the Pacific Fleet.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 161 322 483 580 644
Surf Speed: 31 23 16 8 0 Sinks

Project 1144 Admiral Ushakov (Ex-Kirov) CGN
Displacement: 24100 std In Class: [1]
Size Class: A/Large In Service: 1981 - 92
Propulsion: CONAS Crew: 692
Electrn Cnt: 2nd Gen J&D Acoust Cnt: 2nd Gen D
Signature: Large/Noisy Armor Rating: 0

Weapons: Cbt Sys: Gen 4 Semi-Automatic
PB&SB(20)1 P-700 Granit D
F&A(1)12 S-300 Fort w/8 5V55R//2 3R41 Volna D
P/S(2)2 Osa-MA w/20 msls//2 MPZ-301 Baza D
A(1)2 AK-100 100mm/70//MR-145 (6.8) C
PW/SW/PA/SA(R)8 AK-630 30mm//4 MR-123 (4@7.6) C
F(2)1 Metel w/20 85R//2 Sprut E
F(12)1 RBU 6000 Smerch-2 w/6 salvoes E
P/S(6)2 RBU 1000 Smerch-3 w/4 salvoes E
P/S(5)2 533mm TT w/5 SET-65M F
Aft Pad(1)2 Ka-27PL Helix A, 1 Ka-25 Hormone B B
1 Elevator --

Sensors: ES: 2nd Gen
MR-800 Flag, MR-710M Fregat-M, 3 MR-212/201 Vaygach-U, 2 MPZ-301 Baza (PS/SS) J
MGK-355 Polinom, MGK-355TA Polinom-T K
Legenda, Uspekh, Sea-114 L

Remarks:
Kirov. First unit of Project 1144 Orlan class, each unit listed separately. Total of 20 torps carried, can carry 53-65K torpedoes. CHP armor rating for Metel and P-700 magazines, CIC, and Bridge is 7. CHP armor rating for Helicopter hangar and Rudder is 5. Fitted with stabilizers. One RBU 6000 salvo is 2nd Gen acoustic decoy. Northern Fleet.
• 7 Apr 89: Participated in rescue of survivors of submarine Komsomolets. High-speed run damaged reduction gear.
• 1989 - 92: Plagued with engineering problems, in yards or on trials. Immobile from 1992 due to reactor failure.
• 22 Apr 92: Renamed Admiral Ushakov.
• 1998: Struck, stripped for spares.
• 1999: Reinstated and in refit, completion date unknown.
• 2001: Repair no longer cost-effective, to be scrapped.
• May 04: Struck from navy list.
• 18 Apr 19: Contract signed to scrap the ship in 2021.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 160 320 480 576 640
Surf Speed: 31 23 16 8 0 Sinks

Project 1164 Atlant CG
Displacement: 9380 std In Class: 3 + 1
Size Class: B/Medium In Service: 1983
Propulsion: COGOG Crew: 485
Electrn Cnt: 2nd Gen J&D Acoust Cnt: None
Signature: Med/Noisy Armor Rating: 0

Weapons: Cbt Sys: Gen 4 Semi-Automatic
PB&SB(2)8 P-500 Bazalt//Argon guidance link D
A(1)8 S-300 Fort w/8 5V55R//3R41 Volna D
PS/SS(2)2 Osa-MA w/20 msls//2 MPZ-301 Baza D
F(2)1 AK-130 130mm/70//MR-184 (3.0) C
F/P/S(R)6 AK-630 30mm//3 MR-123 (3@8.8) C
P/S(5)2 533mm TT w/5 SET-65M F
F(12)2 RBU 6000 Smerch-2 w/6 salvoes E
Aft Pad(1)1 Ka-25Ts Hormone B or Ka-27PL Helix A B

Sensors: ES: 2nd Gen
MR-800 Flag, 3 MR-212/201 Vaygach-U, 2 MPZ-301 Baza (PS/SS) J
MR-710M Fregat-M (Slava, Chervona Ukraina) J
MR-750 Fregat-M2 (Lobov) J
MGK-335 Platina K
Legenda, Uspekh, Sea-1164 L

Remarks:
Black Sea Slava, Northern Marshal Ustinov (changed from orignal Adm. Flota Lobov during construction), Pacific Chervona Ukraina, Komsomolets (changed to Adm. Flota Lobov during construction, never completed. Fitted with stabilizers. Can carry 53-65K torpedoes. Chervona Ukraina has P-1000 Vulkan replacing P-500 Bazalt, 3rd Gen J&D, 3rd Gen ES. CHP armor rating for AK-130, CIC is 2.
• Mar 91 - Apr 00: Slava overhauled at Nikolayev. Refit extended because of funding problems. Renamed Moskva 1995 while in refit. Recommissioned as Black Sea fleet flagship. Operational Nov 2000. Probably fitted with P-1000 replacing P-500, probably had Osa-MA upgraded to Osa-MA-2 standard.
• 1992: Fort upgraded to Fort-M, 5V55RD missiles available.
• Dec 95: Chervona Ukraina renamed Varyag.
• Sep 94-Dec 97: Marshal Ustinov in refit.
• 2006-May 08: Varyag overhauled. AK-630s fitted with MR-123-02/3 Bagira radar. AA rating 3@10.1A.
• Jun 11-Dec 16 Ustinov refit in Severodvinsk. P-1000 replaced P-500, MR-650 Podberezovik T1 3D radar in place of MR-800 Flag, Fregat-M2M radar replaces MR-710M, Pal-N1 radar added, Zarya-2 replaces hull MGK-355 bow sonar. Fitted with 3rd gen J&D, 3rd gen ES.
• 2013: Moskva AK-630s fitted with MR-123-02/3 Bagira FC radar. AA rating 3@8.8A.
• Jan 16: Last time Moskva was underway. Planned overhaul stalled for lack of funds.
• Dec 19: Moskva expected back in service. No upgrades due to lack of funds.
• 13 Apr 22: Sunk off the Crimean coast by Neptune missiles during Ukranian War.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 85 171 256 307 341
Surf Speed: 32 24 16 8 0 Sinks

[Seaeagle]

7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Kalinin still has the SA-N-4 system and not the SA-N-9, it's the same project number but I'd argue that alone is a significant difference from what we have IMO, owing to how much more capable the latter system is, even if both are the Pr. 1142.2 design.

Well I agree that the Kinzhal system is much more modern and capable than Osa-M, but Pyotr Velikiy's S-300FM system(front radar and new missiles) is a more significant difference  because the long range S-300 SAM systems(along with the P-700) is a core feature of these ships.

But there are many other things that changed from the early to late units and "Kalinin"/"Admiral Nakhimov" was the first to have Kortik modules(instead of AK-630s) and Udav-1(instead of RBU-6000). 

7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Well, I was commenting on the list posted. You are correct of course, the Moskva is essentially identical to Marshal Ustinov of the same period.

Pr. 1155 would also be pretty good, I think they had started to receive SA-N-9 by 1988 (I know they didn't have it initially),..

IIRC only the first 4 units(1980-83) were completed without Kinzhal AD. 

7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

though would probably be better if its 85RU missiles were modelled specifically in their secondary ASuW role, seeing as ASW is as good as absent in DCS.

Agree -  i.e. with the URK-5 "Rastrub" system.

[Northstar98]

8 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Well I agree that the Kinzhal system is much more modern and capable than Osa-M, but Pyotr Velikiy's S-300FM system(front radar and new missiles) is a more significant difference  because the long range S-300 SAM systems(along with the P-700) is a core feature of these ships.

True, I was going to mention the S-300FM system, though my main source on all this (which is this) is a bit contradictory, I know that apart from the Pyotr Velikiy the others have 2 3R41 radars for the S-300F w/ 5V55RM, with Velikiy have a 30N6 radar forward for the S-300FM w/ 48N6(M? - though the above says 48N6E2, but I thought that was for the S-300PMU-2 which is export only and not marinised).

The reason why I'm paying more attention to the short-range air defence systems is that the SA-N-4 is much more easily saturated than the SA-N-9 (though I guess CADS-N-1 kinda makes up for it).

56 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

IIRC only the first 4 units(1980-83) were completed without Kinzhal AD. 

Seems to align with what's here.

[mkellytx]

Great stuff.  One of my favorite research topics is the NATO Northern flank at the end of the Cold War.  Here's a map of the Soviet air defenses in 90.

nullHave the 89 or 90 USAF order of battle from orbat.info (used to be orbat.com IIRC) from years ago.  From that here's what was planned to go to Norway and the 3rd AF:

nullnull

[bies]

1988 looks like a perfect year. A treasure trove of knowledge for mission makers, thanks.

[samba_liten]

Added v 0.5 to the first post.

 

This has had the ships removed (they were very bad for my fps!), and the Soviet SA-2 and SA-3 batteries added, as well as the Finnish EW radars and the Swedish gun forts of the Kallix line (these are in the rough area where they were historically, but the exact locations are not even close to accurate. There also aren't suitable units available, so I've used the German gun bunker from Normandy).

Most airports now have static planes present as well to represent the units stationed there.

 

Still missing a few helicopter bases fro the USSR, as well as, annoyingly, the bases fro the SU-27 and SU-15 interceptors.

 

 

[QuiGon]

A declassified CIA paper on NATO, Swedish and Finnish forces and capabilities in Northern Europe in the mid-late 1980s: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85S00316R000300040006-9.pdf

Edited 6 hours ago by QuiGon