Black Shark 2

[tagge]

What's the deal with BS2? Can you download/buy it from somewhere? I have the orginal BS1 on DVD.

[kotor633]

Hi,

If you buy BS III, BS II is automatically included.

[tagge]

Ok, thanks!

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I had BS2 and bought BS3. I uninstalled BS2. In the Mission Editor bottom right drop down menu, I can select Version 2011 (as opposed to Version 2022). Version 2011 is essentially BS2 except I won't be able to play older campaigns made for BS2 (even with Version 2011) from what I've read.  

[okopanja]

3 minutes ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

I had BS2 and bought BS3. I uninstalled BS2. In the Mission Editor bottom right drop down menu, I can select Version 2011 (as opposed to Version 2022). Version 2011 is essentially BS2 except I won't be able to play older campaigns made for BS2 (even with Version 2011) from what I've read.  

Yes, this is because the BS3 v2011 has a different ID from BS2.

In theory you can try to hand-edit the miz file and it should work.

I personally kept BS2 since in some cases all slots for BS3 are taken, and BS2 is good enough for me.

What bothers me is that both BS2/BS3 became really sluggish to fly after the preparation phase that occurred prior to BS3 release. So the BS3 got significant changes compared to the time the missions were made from:

- got somewhat lower contrast SHKVAL

- lower turn performance

- lower climb performance - you feel this at take off, (for coaxial rotor!)

- lost it's sling hook (unsure if it was used in missions)

- got shake at around 60-70km/h and high speed. This is still actually fine.

- became way easier to ingest the smoke from rockets

- did not get the target point properly implemented when entering them manually and not through ME (which in turn provides to precise coordinates)

- got a higher price to match Apache

In turn it got:

- simulated INS

- anti-missile warning system (but did not get laser dazzlers, turrets are still visible in the model)

- 4xIgla

- ability to open maintenance hatches.

Still I am glad I upgraded to BS3, since I did it for penny money.

[zerO_crash]

3 hours ago, okopanja said:

- lower turn performance

- lower climb performance - you feel this at take off, (for coaxial rotor!)

The Ka-50 still performs like it did before, overall. What's new, are certain effects that haven't been there before, which one has to consider now. Beyond that, it's all the same. The helicopter performs miles beyond any conventional helicopter, esp. given a competent pilot. What do I mean by new effects? Well, desintegration of rotor blades due to reaching mach 1.0 (and even exceeding). In the BS1 times (BS2 alleviated it, BS3 further improved and fixed), you could dive down at -90* pitch to 600 km/h, and only be stopped by the opposite force vector being equal (drag). You can not do it since BS2. I can reach speeds of 460-470km/h (if I wasn't treating my flying seriously), but above that, the speed of the rotor tips reaches x > M0.95, where the last warning in the form of flutter appears, followed by desintegration of the blades. 

 

The helicopter still performs as it did. If you feel different, show some me evidence. As someone who both has the right hardware, skill & knowledge, the helicopter dwarfs anything out there. You can overload the Ka-50 to 12.200kg (Ka-52 MTOW (real manual) - overloading is quite common IRL, esp. in wartime), and still fly/climb/dive/turn/yaw faster than an AH-64D with 50% fuel and nothing else onboard. Mind you, I treat my Ka-50 according to IRL procedures (something very few, other than real pilots, have a concept of).

 

4 hours ago, okopanja said:

- got shake at around 60-70km/h and high speed. This is still actually fine.

- became way easier to ingest the smoke from rockets

The "shake" is between 50km/h and 70km/h, basically modelling the entering/exiting of ETL. It was there before, but very subtle. Now, it's much more pronounced, both visually, as well as in terms of the general impression. The "shaking", is also encountered at higher G-load (logically), but also at higher IAS (simulating rotor blade flutter).

 

Dynamic gas ingestion was not modelled before at all, which goes to show some of the major differences with BS3 vs. BS1/2. You can shoot rockets from hover (IRL manuals demand a minimum of 120km/h), but then single volley (with time inbetween), and/or with rocket pods om middle pylons (away from engines).

 

Ultimately, people do not appeciate the Ka-50 (or any co-axial), in part due to certain important aerodynamic effects lacking in DCS (they are being worked towards). One essential such effect, is the LTE (Loss of tail rotor effectiveness). When we get that in DCS, you will understand just how much you need consider something as basic as wind, in a conventional helicopter, vs. a co-axial, which is a spaceship comparatively. There are other effects to consider. 15 AH-64s in Desert Storm were lost to mechanical-/atmospheric- related causes. In the recent 4 months, 4 AH-64s have been lost in US, with investigations ongoing, atmospheric conditions being the initial reported causes. One might say - that's a pretty advanced helicopter, to go down to atmospheric conditions...

[zerO_crash]

On 5/13/2024 at 12:05 PM, tagge said:

What's the deal with BS2? Can you download/buy it from somewhere? I have the orginal BS1 on DVD.

To explain it simply:

 

BS1/BS2 is a model of the Ka-50 bort #25. The BS3 is a bort #25, from a later time, with some mixed functionality from other borts of the same make.

 

- BS1/2 are as they were. No updates, other than the necessary ones to keep them working in the latest core-updates. It looks "old".

 

- BS3 introduces two modules:

2011 (BS2) with updated model (visual), effects (e.g. rotor blur, +++), wingtip pylons forced disabled (4-pylons in total) etc...

2022 (BS3) everything from 2011, plus added functionality, wingtip pylons selectable (maximum of 6 pylons, but can be reduced to 4), changes in the cockpit, etc...

 

In other words, BS3 has everything that you want and need. Since you don't have BS2, you're better off with purchasing the BS3 standalone. You'll both be able to simulate the specific Ka-50 bort #25 at the timeframe it was made, and a more modern Ka-50 bort #25 with functionality mixed from different borts and timeframes.

[LuseKofte]

I will say everything with the KA 50 is better than other attack helicopter we have, except the ability to spot and aim with the help of a ai crewman who knows where everything is. 
Personally I struggle to find threats online before I am hit by them without that help. 
But the capability of the KA 50 is amazing. 

Edited June 22, 2024 by LuseKofte

[KoN]

Is BS3 on discount if you own BS1 and BS2 . 

I really don't want to own three black sharks.

Edited September 16, 2024 by KoN