F4 IFF - Odd radar skin returns showing.

[Hawkeye_UK]

Heatblur,

Just looking at IFF return's and note all friendly aircraft are shown as a double horizontal bar from the radar skin.  This is odd, it implies all friendlies are running the same mode and code.

Slightly confused, the top bar should represent the code, the bottom bar the mode. So challenge of 4A would draw a blank if the other aircraft under the range gate target is running 4B.  Or say challenge of Mode 3, if you had a mode 3 and code of say 2245, would only have a double bar from the radar skin if the other aircraft was operating on mode 3 and 2245.  If the other aircraft was running mode 3 and any other other code, it would show as one horizontal bar beneath the gate (as in confirmation of coalition friend on mode).

Is there any plans to implement this correctly within the module / DCS.  Starting to implement IFF correctly would add a good dimension for those looking at more realistic operation of virtual airspace.

PS - Amazing effort - purely mention this as know you guys are all about recreating the most realistic as possible module.

Edited May 18, 2024 by Hawkeye_UK
To add a PS!

[Zabuzard]

Currently in DCS there is no (official) way to get hands on the IFF code selected by another aircraft.

So we decided, until this might be changed by ED in the future, to use double bar returns for friendlies and single bar returns for neutral aircraft.

It is a compromise that, as it is, fits well into how most other modules do it in DCS as well

[Fromthedeep]

Considering that a realistic IFF implementation would affect all aircraft and substantially increase the workload for all developers, as well as skirting around very sensitive issues, I highly doubt ED will ever touch it.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Fromthedeep said:

Considering that a realistic IFF implementation would affect all aircraft and substantially increase the workload for all developers, as well as skirting around very sensitive issues, I highly doubt ED will ever touch it.

Shame, considering RAZBAM developed a system for their aircraft (as well as I believe Aerges' F1) that did everything required.

[Naquaii]

45 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Shame, considering RAZBAM developed a system for their aircraft (as well as I believe Aerges' F1) that did everything required.

Everything required as long as the other aircraft isn't AI and has their code running. That's exactly the issue.

 

1 hour ago, Fromthedeep said:

Considering that a realistic IFF implementation would affect all aircraft and substantially increase the workload for all developers, as well as skirting around very sensitive issues, I highly doubt ED will ever touch it.

Doing it between player aircraft isn't hard. It would require work for the AI ofc for them to present correct responses and react correctly to the responses their radars get. But it's not rocket science and there's plenty of data available on how they work to model it.

[Fromthedeep]

21 hours ago, Naquaii said:

Doing it between player aircraft isn't hard. It would require work for the AI ofc for them to present correct responses and react correctly to the responses their radars get. But it's not rocket science and there's plenty of data available on how they work to model it.

The problem is that they would need detailed data on how the interrogator is programmed for every single module, which is not necessarily something that is easily available. Just because Razbam has data on how the F-15E's interrogator is set up doesn't necessarily mean that ED also has the same data for the Hornet, for example. It's all aircraft specific stuff, which depending on documentation may not be available.

[Naquaii]

3 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

The problem is that they would need detailed data on how the interrogator is programmed for every single module, which is not necessarily something that is easily available. Just because Razbam has data on how the F-15E's interrogator is set up doesn't necessarily mean that ED also has the same data for the Hornet, for example. It's all aircraft specific stuff, which depending on documentation may not be available.

A lot of the time this information isn't classified as the classified part is the crypto which doesn't matter for a sim anyway. And even if it is for something like the F/A-18 (which I don't think it is iirc) that specific aircraft could have a simplified version of the interrogation process which they already have anyway.

[Northstar98]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:03 AM, Naquaii said:

Everything required as long as the other aircraft isn't AI

Of course, but RAZBAM has no control over the AI so the simplified Mode 4 coalition check is all you can do. That's fair enough - it's up to ED to sort out, if they ever do.

On 5/18/2024 at 11:03 AM, Naquaii said:

and has their code running.

Well, to be fair, I did mention that it was for their aircraft (though only the Mirage 2000C and F-15E for their aircraft) and the Aerges F1.From the perspective the module specific side it does everything required.

On 5/19/2024 at 8:17 AM, Fromthedeep said:

The problem is that they would need detailed data on how the interrogator is programmed for every single module, which is not necessarily something that is easily available.

Yeah but all the interaction (which is most of what you need) is already there in most of their modules (including the F-16CM and F/A-18C), it just doesn't do anything, so I doubt this is is actually much of a concern.