Challenging / Complex for More Casual DCS Player

[dr1980]

Hello, I was hoping someone could give me insights into how challenging of a module this is for someone like me who is a more casual DCS user (as casual as one can be in DCS).

I normally find the systems complexity of more modern aircraft a lot to remember and really become proficient at using...I'm wondering if the F-4 is a bit easier in this regard given it's older and I assume more simplistic systems?  As an example I find the F-14 easier to remember how to fly / kill stuff  as opposed to the F-16 and F-18, where it seems like if I don't fly frequently I quickly forgot how to manage the more complex avionics, weapons systems etc.

Thanks for any insights.

[diego999]

Just starting to scratch the surface of the Phantom, but I can tell you for sure is more similar to the F-14 than the Hornet or the Viper, which makes sense being 10 years older than the Tomcat. Radar complexity is nowhere near that of the F-14 and all A-A stuff is simpler.

It has a million switches on the cockpit but every button does one or two things. For me too this is easier than remembering in which one of the 20 MFD Menus is the thing I'm looking for. 

It's an amazing module, and, as any older jet, has a very distinctive "soul" I don't find in newer planes.

I'd say go for it.

 

 

[dr1980]

Thanks very much, that's what I was thinking.  I'll probably give this a go while it's still on sale through Steam and then transfer the license over.  I definitely have a soft spot for the F-4...I saw that one of the included liveries is the same one as a model I assembled as a kid...all good memories.

Edited May 26, 2024 by dr1980

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

Cockpit got zero ergonomy. I mean zero zero. Being older than the Tomcat is truly noticeable systems wise, as you already mentioned.
do you own the F-5?

[dr1980]

I do, bought it along time ago, enjoyed flying it, managed to land some bombs on targets despite the manual methods needed.

[Jetliner]

I was very worried by all the content creators saying it was a very complex aircraft before release but once I sat down with it for about an hour or two its one of the simplest aircraft I own.  Obviously I am no ace but I can operate all weapons and generally put them on target.  I struggle a lot with the Air to Air stuff but I always have.  I dont really understand how to use radars, or understand how AWACS calls work, or when to worry how close enemy planes are until their missiles slap me and I realize "Okay so that was too close."  You also get a whole nother' person in the back to man the radar for you which really takes a serious amount of work load and learning time off.

Honestly its just as easy as the Sabre, the F5, or some of the WWII aircraft as well to an extent.  I dont really know what people were saying when they said it was highly complex unless they meant highly detailed because it is that.

Edited May 27, 2024 by Jetliner

[Qcumber]

The F-5 is a good training aircraft for the F-4. Basic analogue systems that are an evolution of WW2 aircraft. I have only just started with the F-4 but having spent around a 100 hours in an F-5 it is helping me a lot. 

[TerrorMango]

I don't fly too much in DCS, usually take pauses of several weeks or months between more regular flying.

With that, I find the F-4 fairly easy, especially as I have decent hours in the Viggen and F-14. Compared to my favourite single-seater, the much more modern F-16, it's easier to remember the steps and workflows for me. Less fiddling with MFDs, remembering what menus things are buried under (although the 16 is much better in this than the 18 IMO).
Landing funnily enough is some of the easiest for me. 200kts or slightly less depending on weight, slight nose up, touchdown, pull chute.
In the F-16 you have to aerobrake, the F-14 just weers of the runway for me and with the Viggen I am guaranteed to blow at least 1 tire per landing.

Everything has a button and buttons that belong together are grouped (mostly) together.

Jester helps tremendously and the less complex nature of the aircraft compared to, say the F-14 (much weaker radar, no pulse doppler, so no contacts dropping due to various conditions) there's less to worry about. Also much less SA, like 0 (no datalink!)
Currently, Jester cannot control the TGP yet and seems to have lost vital skills like speed callouts during dogfights, but I'm sure this stuff will be added down the line.

Since you mentioned the Tomcat though, the radar in the Phantom is pretty bad compared to it. Unless you are at co-altitude or below a target and ~25nm away, you're probably not gonna catch anything with it, maybe a bomber. So engagements are all medium-short range, by the time you pick something up heading to you, you are very close to being in weapons range.
Still figuring out the sparrows, but the sidewinders I like so far. Simple to use.

Edited May 27, 2024 by TerrorMango

[bfr]

Things that are easier over the newer jets

- No MFDs to worry about

- Jester feels like a marked improvement over the F-14 implementation

Things I think are harder

- No info in the HUD & its all steam gauges, and there are a lot of them

- As someone else mentioned, the cockpit layout isn't exactly intuitive/ergonomic and takes some learning and getting used to

- Nothing like CCIP for bombing, so to get any kind of real accuracy you're having to deal with the bombing table pop-up and tweaking the HUD sight and then also deliver the weapons at the speed/altitude/profile you said you would

- Radar is distinctly rudimentary, almost decorative at times

- There are a lot of things that get in the way when trying to look out of the window

 

As was mentioned, if you get along with the F-5 then you'll probably get on with this. And i've found it easier to fly than the F-14 in most ways.

[Qcumber]

I am finding the F-4 to be somewhere in between the F-5 and the Mig-21 in terms of learning to fly and understand the systems. Relatively easy to fly with lots of power and a brick-like design. The complexity of the cockpit and lack of ergonomics reminds me of the Mig-21. 

[dr1980]

Thanks for the comments everyone!  Sounds like the F-4 might be a good one for me.  

[Gunfreak]

I find the basic systems quite easy.

The weapons and armerment controls are quite logical and clear. 

Taxiing, take off and landing is easy to do good enough. Making a perfect landing (so jester doesn't complain) can be a challenge. But getting it down without damage is a breeze. Much easier than landing in an F16.

Basic flying is also easy so is flying the envelope for ground attack. Engines are both powerful yet responsive. Meaning adjusting power to get on speed for attack is also easy.

The most challenging part of your standing DCS flying is air to air combat. Sparrows/radar is a frustrating thing. And I so far don't understand why I sometimes get fire clearance on the Sparrows and some times don't.

As you throw the F4 around in BFM you'll have to fly nice or you'll end up low and slow. So far I haven't hit the ground even when fighting down low. So it's not like the MiG21 or the F1 Mirage that will kill you super easy fighting down low.

 

But like all DCS modules. Doing the basics is quite easy (once you get how DCS works) mastering it is hard.