The gas mileage on this thing!…

[Mike_CK]

For the first time in the 5 years I have been playing DCS, I ran out of gas in the middle of a mission without knowing I was even low. This thing is just like a 60’s American muscle car…it’s less about miles per gallon and more about gallons per mile.

So…while I knew how to refuel in probe and drogue (sp?) aircraft (F/A-18, F-14 and Mirage 2k), I never learned how to refuel on the boom. Only one I fly that can is the F-16. While I tried a few times to learn, I was swaying and porpoising too much. 

Well, in comes the phantom. I have quickly realized that if I intend on flying missions with any semblance of realism, then it doesn’t matter if I have two wing tanks or one centerline….im going to have to be able to refuel this thing. in a dogfight, this puppy is locked in burner the whole time and you can watch the gauge drop.

So, I gave it a shot. It took me a good 5 minutes but once I got a handle on it, I did it without much issue. It was ALOT easier than the F-16. I found it more stable and not so “twitchy”. I used RUDDER inputs to move left/righy as well as using trim for up/down; much more stable than the Viper.

So, the moral of the story is that if you want to fly realistic missions in this jet- you will HAVE to learn boom-style aerial refueling. So, for those like me who gave up refueling the F-16 (or never tried), give it a shot. After all…you don’t REALLY have a choice!

Edited May 31, 2024 by Mike_CK

[Mr_sukebe]

Agreed, it’s one of the first things that I wanted to be comfortable with.

Having said that, it can be “vaguely” economical if you cruise at say Mach .8 at 30k’.  I did a 600 mile round trip strike mission with just the centreline a couple of days ago, though I refuelled post take off.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

There is a handy triangle marker on the AOA gauge that tells you what the optimal cruise speed is.
And yes, refuelling the F-4 is very very easy (it might get a tad trickier down the line since engine spool times are said to be too quick atm).

[Bladigan]

2 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

There is a handy triangle marker on the AOA gauge that tells you what the optimal cruise speed is.
And yes, refuelling the F-4 is very very easy (it might get a tad trickier down the line since engine spool times are said to be too quick atm).

In the AoA gauge? I suppose it is my mistake but I cannot find it.

[average_pilot]

23 minutes ago, Bladigan said:

In the AoA gauge? I suppose it is my mistake but I cannot find it.

Flight Director Group - Heatblur F-4E Phantom II

That tiny triangle the needle is pointing at.

Edited May 31, 2024 by average_pilot

[Mike_CK]

I agree that fuel economy isn’t an issue if you are cruising at 30k both ways. But a lot of times…I’m not. I’m flying low on egress or worse, I end up in a fight. Any dogfight I’m in means burner. And burner means I need a tanker.

im sure with practice I will get better handling the engines and some of my fuel burn is through inefficiency.

i guess I’m used to the Hornet and F-14 when it comes to dual engines and I assumed the Phantom would burn through fuel at the same rate. Doesn’t seem so

[r4y30n]

I agree that fuel economy isn’t an issue if you are cruising at 30k both ways. But a lot of times…I’m not. I’m flying low on egress or worse, I end up in a fight. Any dogfight I’m in means burner. And burner means I need a tanker.
im sure with practice I will get better handling the engines and some of my fuel burn is through inefficiency.
i guess I’m used to the Hornet and F-14 when it comes to dual engines and I assumed the Phantom would burn through fuel at the same rate. Doesn’t seem so

Turbojets vs turbofans. The Phantom makes roughly the same thrust as the F-14A with a less efficient design.

[Gunfreak]

I dropped my tanks just before a dogfight. So had full internal tanks. When they fight ended (both sides were bingo) I had a little over 2000lb left.

By the time I found the airport I had to do a emergency straight in approach i lowered the gears and flaps less than a minute before touchdown I had 500lb left. But the time my wheels hit the runway I had 380. When I came to a stop I had 300.

[=475FG= Dawger]

11 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

I dropped my tanks just before a dogfight. So had full internal tanks. When they fight ended (both sides were bingo) I had a little over 2000lb left.

By the time I found the airport I had to do a emergency straight in approach i lowered the gears and flaps less than a minute before touchdown I had 500lb left. But the time my wheels hit the runway I had 380. When I came to a stop I had 300.

That’s a five minute fight. The bandit is good enough to keep you at bay. You need an egress plan to get out of the fight earlier. If you have the bandit stagnated across the circle, just work it so you are pointed for home and hauling buckets. If he follows, his fuel problems are getting worse while yours are getting better. 

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

That’s a five minute fight. The bandit is good enough to keep you at bay. You need an egress plan to get out of the fight earlier. If you have the bandit stagnated across the circle, just work it so you are pointed for home and hauling buckets. If he follows, his fuel problems are getting worse while yours are getting better. 

Can't disengage an AI with Fox 2s. Lost track of it twice and started to look for the way home. Only to find it on my ass about to get in perfect firing position.

[=475FG= Dawger]

55 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Can't disengage an AI with Fox 2s. Lost track of it twice and started to look for the way home. Only to find it on my ass about to get in perfect firing position.

You can disengage.

If you get him stagnated across your turn circle and accelerate above 570 as you come around to your egress heading, a Mig -21 isn't going to be able to close to missile range. If you do this while you have enough fuel to get well out of Dodge in full AB, you will be fine. 

Below, I am fighting 2 AI Mig-21's and it isn't going anywhere. I start a spiral climb to bank some energy for my egress. One bandit decides to go counterflow, so the heading to neutralize his re-entry becomes my egress heading, generally towards home and I do a nose low extension to get the speed way up there and the second Mig can't close to R-60 range. It jumps back in the middle to the last turn before my extension so you can see the range to the follower.

 

Edited May 31, 2024 by =475FG= Dawger

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, the good thing is, if it comes to it, the Phantom accelerates like a bat out of hell, and that makes heater range very short against it in a tail chase. That said, if you lose track of a MiG-21, it will be on your tail next time you look. Should that happen, the decision to extend has to be immediate.

[Mike_CK]

5 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Can't disengage an AI with Fox 2s. Lost track of it twice and started to look for the way home. Only to find it on my ass about to get in perfect firing position.

Your point remains. You don’t have a lot of flying time if you end up in a fight. That’s why I forced myself to learn to tank. Not so much after the fight; but once I get to altitude, I hit the tanker and fill up. If I have to get in a fight, I can at least go in with full internal (or close). Plus, after a fight, you have better luck climbing to 30k and making your way to a tanker than Tryinb to hit an airfield I find

either way, I don’t see really digging into what this aircraft is about with refueling. I got lazy with the F-16 b.c I never HAD to. But I should have because knowing how to refuel is as much a part of learning and experiencing the aircraft as operating the TGP or navigating the SA page