f-15e only ED policy on refunds for Razbam products

[markturner1960]

Can someone from ED please clarify what the situation is ? I would like to get a refund on the Strike Eagle and M2k considering they are no longer going to be maintained. 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

we can not give any more detail other than what has already been said in public statements. For now we have to wait for a resolution. 

If you wish to refund the F-15E please contact support directly for a store credit. Please note there will be a wait for any refund as the support team are busy processing requests. 

You will not be able to refund any other aircraft, all the aircraft being sold are working and can be used in DCS currently. 

thank you

[buceador]

1 minute ago, BIGNEWY said:

all the aircraft being sold are working and can be used in DCS currently

This is a little difficult to understand as the F-15E is currently "being sold" and yet it is possible to request a refund?

[markturner1960]

Thanks, I followed the store support wizard but could not find an appropriate path to finish the process....can you help? 

[BIGNEWY]

12 minutes ago, buceador said:

This is a little difficult to understand as the F-15E is currently "being sold" and yet it is possible to request a refund?

It is early in development and early access. 

We would prefer people hold out for a resolution, but if they wish to refund the F-15E on our Eshop the option is there. 

8 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Thanks, I followed the store support wizard but could not find an appropriate path to finish the process....can you help? 

Just open a ticket and message the team explaining what you want. They will then process the request. 

But please note, there is a queue and a wait time for refunds. 

thank you

[Romandv]

17 минут назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

Hi, 

we can not give any more detail other than what has already been said in public statements. For now we have to wait for a resolution. 

If you wish to refund the F-15E please contact support directly for a store credit. Please note there will be a wait for any refund as the support team are busy processing requests. 

You will not be able to refund any other aircraft, all the aircraft being sold are working and can be used in DCS currently. 

thank you

I'd like to hear the reason why you don't refund Steam customers, and there are a lot of them. I understand that there are no ways to refund exactly on Steam platform, but you refuse even when switching to standalone. 

All those who bought modules on Steam are your customers.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Romandv said:

I'd like to hear the reason why you don't refund Steam customers, and there are a lot of them. I understand that there are no ways to refund exactly on Steam platform, but you refuse even when switching to standalone. 

All those who bought modules on Steam are your customers.

We have no control over the steam system, it is steam policy and we have no say in the matter. 

thank you 

[Romandv]

1 минуту назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

We have no control over the steam system, it is steam policy and we have no say in the matter. 

thank you 

I'm not asking you to refund your Steam balance. I want to switch to standalone and get a refund of any kind. 
If I migrate, I have nothing to do with Steam anymore, you will have all my modules, right?

[Malakhit]

Just now, Romandv said:

I'm not asking you to refund your Steam balance. I want to switch to standalone and get a refund of any kind. 
If I migrate, I have nothing to do with Steam anymore, you will have all my modules, right?

There is no migration. It is simply account linking. Your products are still purchased through Steam, and so you cannot apply for a refund.

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Romandv said:

I'm not asking you to refund your Steam balance. I want to switch to standalone and get a refund of any kind. 
If I migrate, I have nothing to do with Steam anymore, you will have all my modules, right?

There is no switch to stand alone for purchases. 

You can link your steam account to DCS to use the modules on stand alone via the steam API. But the purchase remains on steam, that is the point of sale. 

[Romandv]

2 минуты назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

There is no switch to stand alone for purchases. 

You can link your steam account to DCS to use the modules on stand alone via the steam API. But the purchase remains on steam, that is the point of sale. 

I understand now, thank you. 

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Romandv said:

I understand now, thank you. 

No problem, have a great weekend. 

[freehand]

10 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

It is early in development and early access. 

We would prefer people hold out for a resolution, but if they wish to refund the F-15E on our Eshop the option is there. 

Just open a ticket and message the team explaining what you want. They will then process the request. 

But please note, there is a queue and a wait time for refunds. 

thank you

How long is the wait time please ? any idea.

[9V-SPK]

On 6/8/2024 at 5:35 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

we can not give any more detail other than what has already been said in public statements. For now we have to wait for a resolution. 

If you wish to refund the F-15E please contact support directly for a store credit. Please note there will be a wait for any refund as the support team are busy processing requests. 

You will not be able to refund any other aircraft, all the aircraft being sold are working and can be used in DCS currently. 

thank you

Hi may I ask a rough estimate how long it would take? I submitted a ticket a few days ago just curious about the rough time. 

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, 9V-SPK said:

Hi may I ask a rough estimate how long it would take? I submitted a ticket a few days ago just curious about the rough time. 

Hi, at the moment 7 - 10 working days to process the refund. 

Please do not worry, if you have made a support ticket they will action it. 

thank you 

[joso]

5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, at the moment 7 - 10 working days to process the refund. 

Please do not worry, if you have made a support ticket they will action it. 

thank you 

I have been contacted positively about the refund, from my ok to accept the credit on the store, how long will it take before I can use it?

[BIGNEWY]

45 minutes ago, joso said:

I have been contacted positively about the refund, from my ok to accept the credit on the store, how long will it take before I can use it?

As soon as the manager has processed it, its difficult for me to give an estimate, but they are processing them as soon as they can. 

thank you

[Rex]

Refunds?  Geez, has it gotten that bad already? I just learned about all of this today and it breaks my heart.  That said, even if they never release another update for it, I've gotten my money's worth from the F-15E this past year, and I wouldn't accept a refund if ED begged me to take it.   There is no other company that does was ED does and if anything happened to them, it would significantly impact the quality of my life.    They could send me a bucket of dog turds and I wouldn't refund it.

Anyway, you realize that if you get a refund, you may not be able to get the plane back?  I mean, even if development stops, it's already pretty damn good, and it'll continue working for probably quite some time, and if you refund it, and they pull it from the store, you have no Strike Eagle.

Not trying to be flippant, I grew up poor and I well know what it's like not to have money, but we're not talking enough money to pay the rent with.  What's the rush?  Right now, it's just a possibility that you'll lose the plane.  If you refund it, it's a guarantee.

Food for thought I suppose.

I really hope this can be resolved.  I sure hope it's not hopeless.

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Rex

[9V-SPK]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:56 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, at the moment 7 - 10 working days to process the refund. 

Please do not worry, if you have made a support ticket they will action it. 

thank you 

Thanks for the assurance  however I sent it on the 8th of june and havnt got a reply yet. i guess they are really stacked?

 

[BIGNEWY]

17 minutes ago, 9V-SPK said:

Thanks for the assurance  however I sent it on the 8th of june and havnt got a reply yet. i guess they are really stacked?

 

it is only 5 working days since the 8th, give them some more time, or you could try to reply to the ticket again and ask. 

thank you

[Stephen40]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:53 AM, BIGNEWY said:

It is early in development and early access. 

We would prefer people hold out for a resolution, but if they wish to refund the F-15E on our Eshop the option is there. 

Just open a ticket and message the team explaining what you want. They will then process the request. 

But please note, there is a queue and a wait time for refunds. 

thank you

I am willing to wait for a resolution but only if there can be giving clarity on this matter.
Wil a refund also be given when there is no resolution and the product will be discontinued? Or is this the only time to get refund.

Is there any progress in this case?
 

[Dangerzone]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:46 PM, Rex said:

Refunds?  Geez, has it gotten that bad already? I just learned about all of this today and it breaks my heart.  That said, even if they never release another update for it, I've gotten my money's worth from the F-15E this past year, and I wouldn't accept a refund if ED begged me to take it.   There is no other company that does was ED does and if anything happened to them, it would significantly impact the quality of my life.    They could send me a bucket of dog turds and I wouldn't refund it.

Anyway, you realize that if you get a refund, you may not be able to get the plane back?  I mean, even if development stops, it's already pretty damn good, and it'll continue working for probably quite some time, and if you refund it, and they pull it from the store, you have no Strike Eagle.

Not trying to be flippant, I grew up poor and I well know what it's like not to have money, but we're not talking enough money to pay the rent with.  What's the rush?  Right now, it's just a possibility that you'll lose the plane.  If you refund it, it's a guarantee.

Food for thought I suppose.

I really hope this can be resolved.  I sure hope it's not hopeless.

Each persons situation will be unique to them. From their financial situation, to their concern/anxiety/anger/or levels of contentment. There's a lot of passion from all sides on this. Some upset customers can be helped by giving them a refund. (That's not saying all refund requests are from upset players - just that it gives those who are upset options instead of being told they must wait during uncertain times. A lot of it comes down to assurance or having confidence). 

You make an interesting point about possibly not being able to get the plane back, but I'm not sure how much of a risk that really is. At present, it's still available for sale. If it's available for sale now, then when/if things improve - I'd be fairly confident it's definitely going to be available for sale then. I only suspect it would be removed if things get worse. Yes, people who re-purchase may have lost the difference in early access vs full price, but that's the insurance I guess many are willing to pay to have access to their funds now to be able to spend on another module. (2 in the hand vs one in the bush?)

If anything, the disincentive for getting a refund now would be losing the time between now and when it's no longer flyable. It is a great aircraft, and it's flight time that people may not get back if things do get worse, so keeping it while it's flyable and still enjoyable for those who are getting enjoyment out of it now would make more sense (to me), waiting to see what's going to happen. But again, I can see that YMMV is very relevant in this situation.

IMO, ED are showing great reassurance by giving their customers options. People can still buy it if they want. People can wait to see if it's going to be resolved or not. Or People can get a refund. 

What I have found interesting through this though, is the incorrect perception when it comes to risk. I've heard many people mention they buy through steam because they trust the steam system more than ED when it comes to giving refunds. While I grant that getting a refund within 2hrs gameplay through steam may be far easier and more reliable, it seems that's where it ends. After that, going by this situation, it seems that buying through ED is the far less riskier option. It will be interesting to see if this changes people's perception of Steam vs DCS Direct or not, but in either situation, it's sure to be used as an example in future discussions that steam isn't necessarily the best option if you're looking for security with your purchase. 

For me, while this situation is very unfortunate - it does seem to show that ED will try and make as many options available to their customers as they possibly can if unforeseen situations occur and that builds confidence, even in an ugly situation where many people aren't confident. 

[BIGNEWY]

16 hours ago, Stephen40 said:

I am willing to wait for a resolution but only if there can be giving clarity on this matter.
Wil a refund also be given when there is no resolution and the product will be discontinued? Or is this the only time to get refund.

Is there any progress in this case?
 

Hi Stephen40

The current refund on our Eshop for the F-15E is a good will refund and I have not been told that will change. We do hope for a resolution for this dispute but we do not know how long that resolution will take, as you mention we would prefer people to hold out for that resolution but understand those who wish to refund now. 

The radar issue has been reported and we are waiting for a fix. 

thank you 

[Rex]

On 6/16/2024 at 9:51 PM, Dangerzone said:

What I have found interesting through this though, is the incorrect perception when it comes to risk. I've heard many people mention they buy through steam because they trust the steam system more than ED when it comes to giving refunds. While I grant that getting a refund within 2hrs gameplay through steam may be far easier and more reliable, it seems that's where it ends. After that, going by this situation, it seems that buying through ED is the far less riskier option. It will be interesting to see if this changes people's perception of Steam vs DCS Direct or not, but in either situation, it's sure to be used as an example in future discussions that steam isn't necessarily the best option if you're looking for security with your purchase. 

 

I got "scammed" (I guess opinions will vary on the definition) via Steam, and they didn't do a thing for me.

Basically, someone was selling an app, and I thought it was mostly complete, albeit in Early Access. Turns out it was a "developer preview" that was being launched in "a year or so", and they were offering it up at the outset to raise funds.  I was really annoyed, but they assured everyone that we were getting a big loyalty discount by purchasing early and that it would be way more on official launch, yada yada.

Well, after taking my money (and lots of others I'm sure), they simply walked away from the project, leaving us with, essentially, nothing.

It took several months until we realize it had been abandoned, though, and Steam said that since it was over 30 days from purchase, I could go <evacuate> in my hat.  Even though it was clearly a ruse.  From their perspective, the dev may have made a legitimate effort to finish it, but honestly, not much of one.

Some devs are using Steam as essentially a Kickstarter clone, but as it stands, Steam won't do a damn thing for you.

Personally, I've always bought direct from ED because I don't want to give ED 30% less for their products.  That's a significant slice of the pie.  Also, ED has always had great sales, and have been generous with the Frequent Flyer Miles, and over the years they've given me a couple of really good models, completely for free.  Yet another reason I would never refund a plane.   They've already given me a couple of free ones. Even if I lose on the F-15E, I still come out ahead.  I do take your point, though.  It is a person-by-person thing.

 

Edited June 19, 2024 by Rex

[Czar66]

On 6/17/2024 at 4:35 AM, BIGNEWY said:

The radar issue has been reported and we are waiting for a fix.

Is there any ETA for that fix, as it is of extreme importance for the module usage?

For me it was tolerable for X amount of time for the dispute resolution before the radar issue arose, but now the value of X is significant smaller.

Are we talking next patch, two months from now.....or complete unknown when the radar will be back on being usable? This directly affects those who enjoy the module but are soft locked out of using it.

Thanks.