Winwing HOTAS disconnects in DCS when other peripherals are powered on

[Recon Stewart]

Hello everyone, I am in desperate need of help with my new Winwings HOTAS that wont stay connected with my other peripherals powered on as well.  Some background about my setup and PC build:

My PC I built in late 2023:

- Intel i9-14900K 3.2 GHz 24 Core

- Asus ROG Strix Z790-E Gaming Wifi 

- Corsair Vengeance 64 GB DDR5-6660

- MSI Gaming X Trio GeForce RTX 4090 24GB

- Corsair RM1200x 80+ 1200 Watt (This build pulls about 885 watts according to PC Part Picker)

I recently moved my office to the basement where I combined my gaming desktop with my DCS Simpit.  I used to have two PCs to run the separate systems but my wife convinced me to combine them for more bang for my buck and I was able to spend the money on the above beefy PC, Magnus Pro desk, and put my Obutto Cockpit in the same room (Please see photo).  The issue was that the Obutto Cockpit was about 10 feet away from the desktop tower which facilitated the need to have all of my DCS and cockpit peripherals plugged into a powered USB hub (Sabrent - 60W 10 port hub) which I then ran a 15 foot USB A 3.0 cable to USB B to connect all of the below peripherals with the Sim Pit (This also helps with a much cleaner cable management issue with one cable instead of eight running across the room):

- Thrustmaster Warthawg Flight stick

- Thrustmaster Warthawg Throttle

- MSG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

- Track IR

- Butt Kicker

- 2nd Keyboard

- 2nd Mouse

- 2nd Razer Headphones

The desk PC also has the following peripherals plugged directly into the motherboard:

- 1st Keyboard

- 1st Mouse

- Azeron Gamepad

- Speakers

- 1st Steelseries Headphones

- External Hard Drive

- Sabrent USB 3.0 60 Watt Powered Hub

 

Under the above setup, everything worked flawlessly so of course I then had the urge to change things.  I had been flying with the Thrustmaster Warthawg HOTAS for over a decade and decided to upgrade to the Winwing Orion 2 F16EX throttle and stick.

 

When I received them, I plugged them directly into the hub and removed the Thrustmaster Warthawg stick and throttle.  I then received the issue of them not connecting as I didn't plug them directly into the motherboard and I had to go through the process of removing them from windows and all of the SimappPro apps and registry entries.  I then connected them directly to the mother board and got the firmware updated and ready to go.

 

Once that was done, I moved them back to the hub and had issues with them connecting to SimApp Pro and to DCS.  I then played with it and uncovered that if I plugged them in first, they would show up in DCS.  I would then power on the other peripherals in the hub one by one to include the Buttkicker, MFG Crosswinds, Track IR, 2nd Keyboard, 2nd Mouse, and 2nd headphones - eight items total to include the Winwing stick and throttle. 

 

When I individually powered on the seventh and eighth items, the Winwing throttle would disappear from the DCS controls option.  The Winwing stick would remain sometimes and sometimes it would disappear.  I was able to jerry rig it and fly without the buttkicker, 2nd mouse, or 2nd headphones (i used the 1st mouse and 1st headphones from the desk as they are wireless to get around this issue but it is not ideal) and I was able to keep the Winwing stick and throttle connected to DCS and fly without issue or intermittent disconnects)

 

I figured the 60 watt USB hub was not able to handle the additional power draw of the Winwing products over the Thrustmaster so I did some research and people recommended the Sabrent 90 watt USB hub that they successfully use their Winwing products with including several MFD screens and the UFC/DED controls which is definitely more stuff than I'm running.

 

I purchased the Sabrent 90 Watt Hub and figured that would fix my issue but I kept running into the same disconnect issue of the throttle when I added the additional peripherals one by one and sometimes I would also lose the stick.  Winwing support as always said not to use a hub so I then bought 10 foot USB 3.0 Extensions directly from the Winwing products to the motherboard.  SimApp Pro was able to recognize them immediately and I was able to see them in DCS.  But when I added the Buttkicker, MFG Crosswinds, 2nd keyboard, 2nd mouse, track IR, and 2nd headphones through the 90 watt hub, the throttle again disconnected even though it wasn't connected to the hub and sometimes the stick would disconnect as well.

 

I kept unplugging and plugging in the Winwing throttle and stick and got them to reappear in DCS and then I kept adding power through the hub to the additional peripherals one by one and watched the Winwing throttle and sometimes stick disconnect over and over.  I can still omit the buttkicker, mouse, and headphone and get it to work but when I add them in, the Winwing throttle disconnects.  

 

Last night, there was one occasion where I was able to get everything powered on through the hub and keep the Winwing throttle and stick connected to the mother board to all appear in DCS.  I was able to successfully fly in DCS for about an hour and I thought I had fixed the issue.  But when I restarted the PC, the disconnecting issue cropped up again.

 

Winwing support suggested that I try different cables so I purchased 15 footage USB 3.0 A to USB B cables to go directly from Winwing to the motherboard and bypass the extension cable but I have low hopes this is the issue.  I feel that it is a USB over draw issue of some kind which doesn't make sense with the high end PC I have.

 

Some fixes that have been suggested that I haven't yet been able to try while I'm at work today:

- An SRS issue where I need to disconnect all other controllers except the Winwing throttle however this issue happens when i'm not running SRS

- An option in the hub windows option where it is allowing the PC to manage power draw

- A PC Power management issue

- An individual windows USB power saving issue for each port that will shut down certain ports to save power

 

Way too long story short, I was hoping that someone else has experienced this issue and can help me rectify it because it doesn't seem like running my few peripherals through the recommended powered hub should be too much if other users are running MFDs and UFCs/DEDs through the same hub and having no disconnect issues with their Winwing HOTAS setups either plugged into the same hub or run to the motherboard.  My fear is that the cable lengths i'm trying to run are too long and messing with the Winwing stuff.  I've thought about going back to the decade old Thrustmaster products but the winwing stick and throttle have a much nicer feel.

 

I'm also hoping to make the switch to VR in the next six months which is going to be even more USB slots and power draw I imagine so I'm hoping to get to the bottom of the issue.

 

Thank you very much for the assistance!

 

null

 

Edited July 3, 2024 by Recon Stewart

[StandingCow]

I use 2 different powered USB hubs for my setup as if I try and put too many devices on one hub they will blink off and on.  If you still run into the issue using 2 different USB hubs you can try plugging the hubs into different USB ports, not sure if your motherboard has a USB controller on every port or not. 

[mkel2010]

Definitely take a look at the USB power and sleep settings in Windows. I'd also run a system file check (first) to make sure you don't have any corrupted system files. Open a command prompt and type sfc /scannow . That will run system file checker and repair any problems it finds.

Edited July 3, 2024 by mkel2010

[MustangSally]

Mate, that's a wall of text. Question - what is the power output of your hubs? I have 2x10 port 65w hubs that have no issues supplying power to my MIP, stick, throttle, pedals, collective, ICP and UFC etc

[Recon Stewart]

11 hours ago, mkel2010 said:

Definitely take a look at the USB power and sleep settings in Windows. I'd also run a system file check (first) to make sure you don't have any corrupted system files. Open a command prompt and type sfc /scannow . That will run system file checker and repair any problems it finds.

I did the USB power settings and disabled the ability for windows to save power on the different USB devices.  I also ran a sfc scan.  So far it still has the same issue of not showing up.  But now when I turn them all back on one by one, the joystick and throttle don't disappear (only a couple of attempts so far but still).  But when I power the computer up from off, I have to go through the process of individually powering up the devices.

5 hours ago, MustangSally said:

Mate, that's a wall of text. Question - what is the power output of your hubs? I have 2x10 port 65w hubs that have no issues supplying power to my MIP, stick, throttle, pedals, collective, ICP and UFC etc

I have one - 16 slot 90W power supply with six things plugged in

[StandingCow]

Split the devices onto 2 different powered usb hubs.

[mkel2010]

10 hours ago, Recon Stewart said:

I did the USB power settings and disabled the ability for windows to save power on the different USB devices.  I also ran a sfc scan.  So far it still has the same issue of not showing up.  But now when I turn them all back on one by one, the joystick and throttle don't disappear (only a couple of attempts so far but still).  But when I power the computer up from off, I have to go through the process of individually powering up the devices.

I

By powering them up, do you mean plugging in the USB cables to each device? Probably a good idea to do that anyway. Did the SFC check repair any files?

I have the throttle, stick and pedals - all plugged in to the same powered USB hub (along with other devices.) I plug all the Winwing stuff in one at a time when I'm ready to use them and unplug them when I'm done. Beyond the occasional reboot of one of the devices as a DCS mission starts, I don't have any issues once the DCS mission is completely loaded. 

[Recon Stewart]

On 7/4/2024 at 8:25 AM, mkel2010 said:

By powering them up, do you mean plugging in the USB cables to each device? Probably a good idea to do that anyway. Did the SFC check repair any files?

I have the throttle, stick and pedals - all plugged in to the same powered USB hub (along with other devices.) I plug all the Winwing stuff in one at a time when I'm ready to use them and unplug them when I'm done. Beyond the occasional reboot of one of the devices as a DCS mission starts, I don't have any issues once the DCS mission is completely loaded. 

By powering up, I mean pushing the button next to each USB slot on the hub to give each slot power.  The SFC check stated that it repaired some files but did not list them out.

I think I may have found the issue but will need to do more testing to confirm.  I have a wireless Razer Death Adder v2 as my 2nd mouse on the Sim Pit in which I was using the Dongle option plugged into the USB port of the 2nd keyboard.  When I was trying to cut down on devices in the USB hub, I removed the dongle and put it into the PC directly.  I was still experiencing issues and so then I randomly removed the dongle completely and everything came online.  I restarted DCS several times and the PC a couple times, and every device was online and able to be used.  When I plugged the dongle in again, I lost the Winwing throttle and stick.  I'm guessing there is some kind of conflict with that dongle.  

I still want to try using the mouse through Bluetooth mode and see if that breaks it as well as plugging the Winwing stuff back in the powered hub to see if they still work there.  

I'm not positive it is fixed but I am hopeful.  I will keep the thread updated for future users with the same issue.  Thank you!

Edited July 5, 2024 by Recon Stewart

[silverdevil]

@Recon Stewart back in the day printers with too long of a USB cable could malfunction. i agree with suggestions to introduce a second hub.

[mkel2010]

20 hours ago, Recon Stewart said:

By powering up, I mean pushing the button next to each USB slot on the hub to give each slot power.  The SFC check stated that it repaired some files but did not list them out.

I think I may have found the issue but will need to do more testing to confirm.  I have a wireless Razer Death Adder v2 as my 2nd mouse on the Sim Pit in which I was using the Dongle option plugged into the USB port of the 2nd keyboard.  When I was trying to cut down on devices in the USB hub, I removed the dongle and put it into the PC directly.  I was still experiencing issues and so then I randomly removed the dongle completely and everything came online.  I restarted DCS several times and the PC a couple times, and every device was online and able to be used.  When I plugged the dongle in again, I lost the Winwing throttle and stick.  I'm guessing there is some kind of conflict with that dongle.  

I still want to try using the mouse through Bluetooth mode and see if that breaks it as well as plugging the Winwing stuff back in the powered hub to see if they still work there.  

I'm not positive it is fixed but I am hopeful.  I will keep the thread updated for future users with the same issue.  Thank you!

 

Sounds like there is either a firmware or conflict issue with the mouse (one of the many reasons I hate wireless mouse and keyboards.) I'd suggest opening a support ticket with Razer and see if they can get to the bottom of the issue.