no bug Throttle Levers - DOWN don't go under ground idle after cold start [NOT BUG: DC power needed]

[virgo47]

AFAIK, the throttle axis only works from ground idle to max throttle, and when one wants to go lower, we need to press the Throttle Stop Switch, and then Throttle Levers - DOWN again. This works fine when starting hot.

But after the cold start, it does not work anymore. I depress the stop button and throttle down doesn't go lower anyway. TRK from cold start training mission attached. (Not much is visible, but I tried both the keys and mouse rotate.)

EDIT - solution/quick explanation: This button's internal working requires DC power.

uh1h-cant-stop-throttle-after-cold-start.trk

Edited July 21, 2024 by virgo47

[Flappie]

Hey @virgo47. It's worse on my end: I don't even manage to set the throttle to the minimum using the stop switch when the Huey starts hot. How do you do this?

hot_UH1_throttle.trk

[MAXsenna]

Hey @virgo47. It's worse on my end: I don't even manage to set the throttle to the minimum using the stop switch when the Huey starts hot. How do you do this?
hot_UH1_throttle.trk

It's been like this forever. I always press the stop switch with the mouse, and then use the mouse to rotate it to idle. Then the throttle works.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[virgo47]

10 hours ago, Flappie said:

Hey @virgo47. It's worse on my end: I don't even manage to set the throttle to the minimum using the stop switch when the Huey starts hot. How do you do this?

hot_UH1_throttle.trk 161.93 kB · 5 downloads

Stop switch is only the little switch above the throttle that unlocks the possibility to go below ground idle level. This is also the minimal level you can use with the axis, if it's lower it doesn't react to axis at all, but that one is a feature. That's where the key binding for throttle UP/DOWN come in (warning, mine are NOT default bindings, normally they are without LCtrl)...

I opened your track file, took control and just using the throttle key bindings I could go to the STOP position, no problem. That is, in any position 1. press the Stop Switch (End by default), 2. press and hold Throttle DOWN binding (PageDown by default). It got to below the protected position (below the red line):

The problem is, when I try the same in the cold started mission (mine or the first training), I can't get to that position - the STOP button seems to be depressed, but the DOWN binding doesn't go under the IDLE position.

But this is not about how the mission is started really: If I go through the starting procedure, the helo is hot, I can go to the STOP throttle position again. So I started to experiment - and the thing is:

• If the battery switch is OFF, you can't turn the throttle to the STOP position. Is that realistic?
• It works fine with electric power, be it battery or ground power.

Is that stop switch somehow electricity-dependent?

Edited July 21, 2024 by virgo47

[Flappie]

@MAXsenna You're right, I remember it now. I even asked devs for a change a while ago.

@virgo47 I misread your first post and thought you were using the Throttle axis to go lower that the Stop.

I tried again in a cold start helo, this time using the Throttle Levers - DOWN button, and I don't get your issue. I did the following:

1. Autostart procedure (I'm lazy).
2. Throttle to min using the axis (which translates in Throttle to idle).
3. Pressing Throttle Stop Switch.
4. Pressing Throttle Levers - DOWN.

cold_UH1_throttle.trk

[virgo47]

My question in the last post was whether the IDLE switch depends on the power, I couldn't find it in the manual (at least not in an obvious manner), but yes, power must be on for it to operate. TM 55-1520-210-10, Change 17, 2-4 states:

Quote

To bypass the idle detent press the IDLE REL switch and close the throttle. The IDLE REL switch is a momentary on, solenoid-operated switch. The IDLE REL switch is located on the pilot collective stick switch box. IDLE REL switch receives power from the 28 Vdc bus and is protected by a circuit breaker marked IDLE STOP REL.

That explains why it works properly only with power. As I don't know how it should behave without the power (e.g. does it mean you can't twist the throttle to STOP? or just that the protection is not there?), I guess it's not a bug.

You don't encounter this when you follow the procedure, because the power is always there. I was experimenting with throttle controls in the cold aircraft, that's how I got to this mess.

[MAXsenna]

That explains why it works properly only with power. As I don't know how it should behave without the power (e.g. does it mean you can't twist the throttle to STOP? or just that the protection is not there?), I guess it's not a bug.

Wild guess being a solenoid and all, it should just pop right out without power. One could probably press and hold it with one hand and still twist the throttle.
I wonder how the Virpil collective with the throttle works, as it has that button. Is it like the cutoff/idle stops like the Warthog?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[virgo47]

6 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Wild guess being a solenoid and all, it should just pop right out without power.

That would be my guess as well. It doesn't behave this way in DCS, as it still toggles just fine without the power. But I don't know what the internal mechanism is. However, I've learnt something today (again). Perhaps it will help someone else if they find it.

[Flappie]

We may have the answer right here (startup):

Quote

"So now we just roll the throttle wide open, all the way back, and then click that solenoid and just go back through the other side of the gate [... inaudible...]"

The right seat Stop button does not seem to move when the left seat Stop button is actuated.

So my guess is that if at least one of the Stop buttons is depressed, it stays depressed (solenoid in action), which disables the throttle Idle position stop.

40 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Wild guess being a solenoid and all, it should just pop right out without power. One could probably press and hold it with one hand and still twist the throttle.

I agree. No powered solenoid, the button jumps back out when released.

Edited July 21, 2024 by Flappie

[virgo47]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

We may have the answer right here (startup)...

In the hunt for the answer, I found this video today as well. I also doubted the depressed position stays depressed without power (that is, after figuring out the DC power is needed), but this may be also DCS modelling thing - that it is toggle instead of push to hold, even when cold. As it is not my original "problem", I consider this issue solved.

Thanks/sorry for your time guys, perhaps there could be power mentioned in the manual where the button is described (as it is in the real manual), but that's another topic.