Navigating waypoints in F4E

[SabreDancer]

2 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

From my understanding, a radial is the TACAN station. Radial 185, 15 miles would be bearing 185, 15 miles from aforementioned TACAN station, correct? Am I accurate with what I think of the radials? Same thing with the VOR? How would I go about seeing that on the HSI? I guess that would be the question of the day. How would I get that radial dialed in on the HSI with the TACAN station tuned in?

I cant really visualize something like this on a map, Id have to physically have the map in hand to see which direction I would need to turn in order to keep an accurate plotted course. That alone sounds like a handful of work to do.  The way I have my sim set up makes it hard to read the kneeboards on the fly since my monitor is like 5 feet away from me.  I just got done doing the F-14 navigation tutorial and for some reason it wasnt all this difficult...so why does it seem so hard to do in the F4?? See, in the F14 the HSI moves directly to wp3 when I ask Jester to do so. Pressing the TACAN button swings the HSI towards the transmitter. The HSI doesnt do that in the F4 when I ask Jester to select any waypoint....unless I am missing something. Ill do the training mission again and triple check my settings.

 

Re: your first paragraph, it's more complicated (such as to/from indications on the HSI) but that's basically correct.

For how to see it, to the right of the HSI, you'll note the bearing/distance knob on the left and mode knob on the right. The BRG/DIST knob controls which nav source the HSI displays the bearing and distance to (so, INS waypoint, TACAN beacon, VOR station, etc.) while the MODE knob controls what the CDI (needle in the middle) points towards. For TACAN navigation with radials, you'll want both to be in TAC mode, and you can control the CDI via the course selector knob on the lower right of the HSI.

So in a single phrase, set it to TAC/TAC and use the dial on the right.

Re: the second paragraph, I suppose that's what the training mission is attempting to teach- for example, it both has you following a direct outbound path from the TACAN beacon as well as intercepting a radial on a predefined heading. During the mission, when you fly a heading of 090 until you reach the 118 radial of 44X at 58NM, you now have a quite accurate position fix and can tell if you're at the right spot.

Discussing what's going on with the F-14, pressing the TACAN button on the nav panel in that plane is the equivalent of setting the knobs to TAC. The reason the HSI isn't pointing towards a TACAN beacon in the F-4 is likely because the TACAN isn't set up or the knobs aren't both in TAC.

It's long, but the manual does a quite thorough job of explaining all the features: Flight Director Group - Heatblur F-4E Phantom II

Edited September 16, 2024 by SabreDancer

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, SabreDancer said:

Discussing what's going on with the F-14, pressing the TACAN button on the nav panel in that plane is the equivalent of setting the knobs to TAC. The reason the HSI isn't pointing towards a TACAN beacon in the F-4 is likely because the TACAN isn't set up or the knobs aren't both in TAC.

Im fairly certain I was in TACAN mode on the runway. I was able to navigate to the TACAN station. I got plenty of time to play pilot tonight, so Ill keep trying and take note of that.

I gotta chew on this meat for a moment: at takeoff, I fly runway heading @ 065. If I am to intercept the 118 radial at 58 miles, would that mean the reciprocal heading of 298 with a distance of 58 miles on the range display? Is that what it would look like on the HSI, with the needle pointing towards 118 while I am traveling 065? If so, is that what I am supposed to set my course at?

Edited September 16, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Zabuzard]

It might help to read this and surrounding posts here (including step by step images) which specifically talks about this training mission as well:

Cheers

Edited September 17, 2024 by Zabuzard

[Hammer1-1]

9 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

It might help to read this and surrounding posts here (including step by step images) which specifically talks about this training mission as well:

Cheers

 

ok, yeah...yeah! I get it now. Basically I just made a mountain out of a mole hill. This would be one of them times where writing stuff down on the canopy would be beneficial and a map handy.

[Zabuzard]

No worries. This kind of navigation takes time to get used to and its also too easy to forget that its not easy and obvious if you havent done this in 3 other modules before already

[=475FG= Dawger]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:22 AM, Hammer1-1 said:

I dont know what I am looking for, quite honestly. A little more clarification in the tutorial would help, quite frankly. What is the back seater using to navigate to the next waypoint if its not TACAN? Im asking for what to do to get to wp2 or 3. TACAN? Outer or inner beacon? The flight plan has coordinates for the waypoints, not any radio stations. I spent a few minutes looking for the actual training mission to cross reference in the F10 map and possibly find the kneeboards and charts so I can review them outside of the simulator. Any idea where they would be at? I am definitely missing something, and Im trying to find out what. The navigation tutorial is not located in the missions/training folder. Specifically looking for the kneeboards, but the mission as well.

and to add on, the only thing Im not familiar with even remotely would the the INS. Even in the F18, Ive no idea how to use it. If the GPS goes out, Im skrood.

 

I would suggest learning to navigate the old fashioned way. You start with dead reckoning, which is using speed, course and time to calculate where you are from a known beginning point. 
 

With dead reckoning, you make a flight plan and you fly according to the plan. 
 

And then there is pilotage, navigating by reference to what you see out the window. You choose landmarks on the map and then fly referencing those landmarks. 
 

In reality, you use the two methods together as a crosscheck. 
 

Pick a landmark. Decide you want to approach it from the south and leave it going north west. This will teach you the concept of bearings or “radials” to and from a position. Practice intercepting various bearings both to and from a visual point using only what you see and the compass. 
 

All of that will lay the groundwork for radio navigation (TACAN/VOR/NDB)

INS is very simple. It is dead reckoning by a machine. You tell it where it is and it attempts to keep track of your speed and heading over time. If you tell it a coordinate it can point to that coordinate from where it thinks it is. 
 

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/training/assets/media/navigation/nav-trainee-guide.pdf

Edited September 18, 2024 by =475FG= Dawger

[TOViper]

Hey Hammer 1-1 ... I really don't want to sound too edifying now (really!), but reading a lot is one of the important things before going flying ... 

IMHO it makes flying much more enjoyable, instead of being frustrated while bursting through the air at Mach 2 ...
Feel free to come back to any question here, but before I highly advise to read about what the aircraft is capable of doing for you ... and what not ... and what the aircraft expects FROM YOU

BTW: if you miss something in the training lessons guide in the online manual, just give a hint, because HB is interested in making the guide better and better at all times; but obviously it needs some feedback by the pilots out there ...

Edited September 18, 2024 by TOViper