When guided missiles don't work

[Faolin]

I've been practicing my combat skills lately, and noticed that many times I can fire up to 4 laser-guided missiles at a target, watch it spiral in to my target, explode, and leave the vehicle remaining there seemingly unscathed. I'm not quite sure why this is. Sometimes it appears that my missile could have been spiraling around so much that it struck the ground, prior to hitting my target. Other times it looks like a dead hit, but nothing as much as smoke ever arises from my target. I did notice that sometimes targets explode after a significant delay, but other times I never see an explosion at all. I tried re-watching the combat training tutorial and noticed that the instructor did the same exact thing when lining up on the 4 tanks at the beginning. The second tank he struck never exploded at all and remained a threat. Following the tutorial, I took control and lined up 2 more guided missiles on it before it finally exploded. Is there anything obvious I could be doing wrong? I know I'm in range (usually firing around 2.5km, but I know the range is something like 8km anyway). I know I'm at a reasonable height, and usually firing from standstill. Everything looks normal until I realize that the vehicle I hit is usually still intact and still a threat. Could it have anything to do with my target bracket size? I've tried super small brackets right in the middle of the tank, and I've tried larger brackets that auto-size around the tank to fit it. None of it really seems to produce significant results. What kind of experience does everyone else have with this?

[EtherealN]

Track file would help ascertaining whether there is anything actually wrong happening.

 

On the variable delay to explosions, this varies from target to target. Basically, a softer vehicle that takes a direct Vikhr hit is just going to cease to exist. A tank, however, will be some 60 tonnes of highly hardened steel alloys, meaning that something as relatively small as a Vikhr isn't going to annihilate it. It might however get a hit that ignites something that later causes it to explode.

 

(An AGM-65 on the other hand... That'll do all kinds of fun stuff even to MBTs. I've heard mentions (not sourced as far as I recall, so don't quote me) of Israeli commanders being dissappointed the first times that they got to use the AGM-65; it literally left nothing of the target, and this was at a time where Israel were seriously short on materiel so they were in the habit of repairing the damaged tanks of their enemies. :P )

 

The biggest influence on whether a missile will annihilate a target is the type of target and it's facing - an MBT like a Leopard 2, Challenger, M1 or suchlike will most likely not be killed by a Vikhr from the front. You'll need at least two. Best way is to instead save your missiles and reposition yourself to hit them from the side or rear.

 

Also, 2.5km is way too close. Not from a standpoint that changes anything here, but you should be aware that you are very close to their main gun range, and if they have any friends that you don't know about yet they don't have to be much closer to make you eat a Sabot. And that is instant death for you.

[Faolin]

I understand the annihilation bit-- my post was all in reference to tanks... I think it was T-55s used in the tutorial. I've never had problems blowing up the thinskins. I definitely haven't been paying attention to the orientation of the target, though. That sounds like it may be the culprit for me. Also, I'm always looking for an explosion to verify that the target is no longer a threat. Is this always going to be the case, or is there ever a time when I may hit a tank and it's no longer a threat but it never produces an explosion? Thanks!

[EtherealN]

I'm not 100%, but I am fairly sure that you will be wanting to look for an explosion and any target that does not explode (and isn't something small like an infantryman or civilian bus etcetera) is still a danger. Do note however that hardened targets, like MBTs, will often produce smoke for a while before they explode. If you see that smoke rising from them - don't launch another missile on them, just sit back and wait for the fireworks. If there is no smoke (it can sometimes be hard to see, and you'll usually only have a good enough view of it through the Skhval window), then he's still dangerous.

 

EDIT: However, I should note that I have never had any issues with killing T-55's on the first Vikhr, irrespective of aspect, unless something has managed to upset my targeting mid-flight and thereby prevented me from hitting the target at all.

 

On the tracking gates, I actually usually make them really small - slightly smaller than the target. From what I've understood this is technically wrong but I find it easier to get the first lock that way.

Edited May 25, 2009 by EtherealN

[Jack McCoy]

Which mission are you flying? Shooting Range?

 

The targets in there are static objects and are much tougher to kill. This is a know issue. Wait for the patch if this is your case.

 

Target aspect angle has very little to do in this case. Static tanks will happily take 3-4 Vikhrs in the engine.

 

EDIT: I agree with Ether: I usually don't bother with target aspect (except when struggling with Shooting Range). A single missile will do it. Maybe the US M1 Abrams might require 2 in the front.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Jack McCoy

[viper169th]

The other thing you might want to look at is if your in A/G mode or A/A mode in A/A mode it's a proximity fuze not a direct hit explosion.

 

Sincerely,

Viper169th

[Screamowic]

If you want to make shure you hit something you could hit F6 after launching a rocket. This camera mode will have you follow the rocket directly.

 

Also keep in mind that main battle tanks are hard to crack with under 2 Vhikr rockets. Try using medium or long burst mode. This will launch 2 Vhikr in rapid succession.

 

And the delay you notice when hitting a tank before it explodes is simply the tank starting to burn before the fire reaches the ammunition, I guess.

 

Finally, 2 Vhikrs in the front of a tank may not be enough, since tanks have their thickest armor on the front side.

[joey45]

.....

Finally, 2 Vhikrs in the front of a tank may not be enough, since tanks have their thickest armor on the front side.

 

thats why you try to attack from the rear or the sides....

 

manover and fire.

[LastRifleRound]

I've had this problem as well, and found it has to do with a number of factors:

 

1.) Terrain-If your target is in hilly terrain, the vikhr's spiral could cause it to impact the ground short of your target as you saw

 

2.) Range-2.5km is point-blank as far as vikhr shots are concerned. The spiral is quite pronounced at this range. Try your shots from 4km and out and you'll see better results. This seems to be the most major factor for me on whether or not I score hits.

 

3.) Static objects, as mentioned earlier, take many more missiles. This may be an issue, or perhaps it simulates a dug-in target. Either way, it takes many more hits to knock out "static" type objects.

 

4.) Are your targets moving? Make sure you have ground moving target enabled if this is the case to allow lead angle calculations.

[EtherealN]

I agree with Ether: I usually don't bother with target aspect (except when struggling with Shooting Range). A single missile will do it. Maybe the US M1 Abrams might require 2 in the front.

 

To clarify, I don't bother with aspect when encountering T-55's and T-72's and vehicles lighter than that. When encountering M1's and T-80's and such more recent tanks I will usually consider maneuvering to get a side-on shot, but of course it's not always that you have either the time (they may be presently engaging friendly forces) or opportunity (the path to a side shot would require entering too dangerous or unscouted territory or require gaining too much altitude to ascend a hill).

 

As with all things, it's a matter of judgement for each case. But if you are able to, you should hit the heavier MBT's from the side or rear. (Hitting them from above is rarely feasible with the Black Shark :P )

 

In general though, I guess even against M1's I find that I am usually in a situation where I'd rather spend the extra Vikhrs than spend the time repositioning and thereby giving that tank the time to engage friendlies.

[Faolin]

All extremely helpful comments. I had no idea about the difference in durability with static ground objects-- yes I am playing the Shooting Range mission here. LastRifleRound, I appreciate the explanation of the spiral effect. I hadn't yet realized that the spiral improved with more distance. Also, I did have the Ground Moving Target switch enabled even though the actual vehicles were stationary. Does this produce a negative effect on stationary targets? I've been enabling it for any ground targets, regardless of mobility. Are there any easy indicators to tell if a target is dead if you missed all the fireworks that may or may not have occured? I found myself launching all my Vikhrs at various targets on the range and I lost track of which ones should've been dead or not. Will the Shkval not lock (TA symbol) if the target is already out of commission? I noticed that happening, but wasn't sure if it was due to me screwing something up or due to the target being already dead. I noticed that during the combat training tutorial, the enemies all had blue text labels above their positions on the field. Whenever one exploded, the label would disappear. This was an easy way to tell if they were a lump of rubble or still a threat. I was unable to get the text labels to appear in the Shooting Range, even after fiddling with designating target markers on the ABRIS. I got markers to appear, but no text labels on the enemies. BTW, sorry this all looks so smushed together. I use whitespace to separate my thoughts in the reply editor, but it doesn't carry over to the post =/ you guys seem to be putting lots of white space in your posts just fine. lol I'm a bit lost with that....

Edited May 25, 2009 by Faolin

[viper169th]

I personally use A/G Mode when atacking any ground targets A/A when engaging air threats ..... A/G mode is helpful when a target decides to take off as a vik is coming towards it ...... the Shkval will not lock a dead target I hope this helps you out

 

Sincerely,

Viper169th

 

P.S. you don't have to lock a target if you already ranged it to get the next few viks off just watch to make sure it's not too far off ofcourse with guns it is the same I'll adjust over the target with a quick burst saves your laser :thumbup:

[LastRifleRound]

Ground moving target just allows a linear lead calculation. If the target isn't moving, no lead will be calculated. I do the same as Viper, I tend to always engage with GMT enabled.