Please Help!!!!!!! Frame rates

[sshantt]

check this out i switched from realtemp to lavalys everest and got these results. what do you thing should i try e-leet now???

Edited June 9, 2009 by sshantt

[EtherealN]

78 degrees C is acceptable where you are at right now, but you do need a better cooling solution to go beyond that. And I will tell you that even if it takes a lot of reading and tweaking to get done in a secure fasion, it's worth it. The i7 is an extremely powerful CPU, but it does suffer on single-thread application performance through it's (relatively) low clock speeds. And with the low cost of purchasing a good cooler the benefit is well worth both the money and the time expense.

 

Another idea though - have you disabled Hyperthreading in the BIOS? You could try that. This has zero risk beyond that some applications (like well multithreaded video encoding applications and such stuff) might suffer, but there have been some reports of people gaining a lot in FPS on that.

 

This can be achieved in the BIOS, does not require any temperature testing. If it doesn't give you tangible benefits, it's reset back through just flipping a switch in the BIOS again.

[sshantt]

should i turn it on or off??and will i have to take off only the huge intel fan with the heat sink and replace it and is there a risk in this?? and finaly im aiming at a 70$-150$ cooler, what do you advise??

(I added another test to the last post check it out, the temp increase stops at 79-80 degrees)

[EtherealN]

Hyperthreading off would, in theory, grant higher performance to single-threaded applications (like DCS) on the i7. So if it is on, turn it off and test. If it is currently on, well, you can flip it to on and test anyway.

 

This is a slightly controversial area, since there are conflicting reports. But some people have reported dramatic performance increases when having Hyperthreading off.

 

As you know, processors have a certain amount of cores. (Used to have only one, but not anymore.) So my E8500 has two cores, your i7 has four cores. This means that nominally my processor can do two things at the same time, yours can do four. But there's also something you could call "logical" cores, which is Hyperthreading. The i7 has that feature, which allows each physical core to act as two "logical" cores. This allows 8 simultaneous "threads" to be operated on.

 

But it seems like under certain conditions, it can cause a thread, like DCS, running on core#2 (and only Core#2, since it's single-thread) using only half of that core due to the core being split into two "logical" cores. You can think of the difference between physical and logical core in the same way as you can have a single 1TB hard drive, but split it into two "logical" hard drive partitions - C: and D: - each of an arbitrary size as long as the sum is smaller or equal to 1TB.

 

In the same way, the i7 can split each actual core into several threads - meaning several operations done in parallell. However, it seems like this sometimes can cause there to be "free" processor time on the core, causing DCS to not use all the available physical resources.

 

Do note though that there are conflicting reports in this topic. But there is no harm possible in trying - windows might boot a little slower, that's about as bad as it can get from toggling that feature. (Unless you run certain specialized intensive apps like 3DsMax and Photoshop and so on.)

 

On cooler choice, if the Zalman listed in my sig supports your socket (1366LGA), I can heartily recommend it. It requires a backplate due to it's weight (backplate is included), it has a very smart and effective cooling paste included, and it's made of a fat bunch of copper plates (0.1mm thick each). It also allows you to install an external fan speed control (included) if sound is a problem - though I don't hear it at all while it's on full, but the option is there.

 

The drawback is that it's close to a full kilogramme of copper, and big, so you need to verify that you have the space for a 14cm diameter heat sink around the CPU, and even more protruding directly from the CPU (since the actual heatsink and fan assembly is fitten on three double heatpipes going from the CPU contact plate).

 

But it is very easy to install, very effective, and is easy on the silver paste application. So if it supports 1366LGA, I heartily recommend it. It lowered my temps from close-overheat at 3.4 to less than 50 degrees C at 4GHz, and is relatively cheap.

[sshantt]

Oh my god, i just checked the cooler out and you wont believe the coincidence, when i was ordering parts fo my pc i actualy ordered this zalman but i had a problem getting it cos of where i live and so i used the intel fan/heatsink. If i only got the zalman, man i regret that choice, any way i know what hypertheading is and that BS doesent suppot it (what a bummer) but there are future games that will support it.

So is it easy to replace the fan? and btw im using GZ-AA1CB-SNB gigabyte case how do i know if it will fit or not??and how does a backplate work??

 

(Ive also got a problem with i think my case cos evey time i try to inset a usb stick or something in the front usb my pc shuts down, i dont know why but it does please help if you can)

Edited June 9, 2009 by sshantt

[EtherealN]

I found the Zalman easier to apply correctly than the stock fan. You basically need access to the backside of the motherboard (might require removing the motherboard, depending on computer case). There you fasten a backplate. Then on the front, after removing the old cooling paste (remember the cleaning agent, needs to be specialized for the purpose), you apply the new paste on both CPU and contact plate of the cooler assembly. (Guide is included with the cooler.) You then place it onto the cpu and secure it with screws into the backplate.

 

That is, at least, the procedure for a 775 socket. It should be the same for the 1366 socket of your i7, but do double-check that.

 

I'll doublecheck the specific case.

 

EDIT: It -should- fit into the case. However, it will be tight. If you want to have better margin, there's a smaller sibling (9600 I think) of the cooling fan I have in my sig. It is almost as effective but should give you the margin you need. That said - I think the 9700 should fit as well, but at that point we are tight enough that I wouldn't want to do it without direct confirmation.

Edited June 9, 2009 by EtherealN

[sshantt]

thanks but with the 9700 how much oc do you think ill reach with my cpu im currently at 2.87 Ghz, and can i overclock my ram or video card in any way.

Im also curious, about the difference between the two cooling fans and if they would affect the overclock limit i will get? If i folow exactly procedure with every lets say 5Mhz checking stability and tempratures do you think that i can fry or severely damage my cpu,motherboard or videocard and did OCing damage any of your hardware.thanks i realy apreciate the help

[EtherealN]

The USB problem is a bit weird. I suppose it could be a short of some kind, but it seems weird. Check if the case is connected to the motherboard through a uniform (that is, not in several pieces) USB connector. (Ten pin electric contact, should be marked USB and a number on the motherboard.)

 

I'm not close to an expert in that area, but if it isn't an erroneous contact causing the error then it sounds like a faulty component somewhere, either in the USB controller in the case or on the motherboard.

[EtherealN]

I've seen other i7 920's do 3.8GHz with that cooler. This is motherboard-dependent though, but you should be looking at somewhere in that neighborhood.

 

Your motherboard should support overclocking the RAM as well. It should just be a case of finding the option to "unlink" it. After that you would just type in a number, like "1600" for 1600MHz and so on. (NOTE: Unless the motherboard works on the base numbers - remember, DDR3 is basically three channels, so it's clock times three. And different motherboard ventors present the numbers in different ways.) Take it slow - 50MHz intervals - and progress up slowly. However, most BIOS manufacturers have some variability in names of those things. However, as far as temperature goes there is no threat to memory clocking from clocking the CPU.

 

Video cards can usually not be clocked through BIOS, since they are resident in the PCI-e system. However, both ATI/AMD and nVidia have softwares included that offer overclocking capabilities. For nVidia there's also a program called "RivaTuner", which is the one I use myself. It has extremely advanced features but also allows simple slider-overclocking. Again, though, take it slow. And my experience of nVidia cards is that the memory on them is the most sensitive component. I can have my 9800 running at 820-830MHz core and 2GHz shader clock with no semblance of issues - but the memory on the card doesn't tolerate more than 1300MHz. Though I believe that's temperature dependant, but I have not been able to verify that.

 

But all three clockings should be independent of each other in the sense that doing one will not make it impossible to do the other, unless you get rediculous accumulated heat generation. (Should not be the case.) And of course, as far as DCS goes, overclocking the GPU is almost pointless unless it's extremely ancient. For Folding@Home and some shooters overclocking the GPU can have dramatic effects, though. (Just remember to unlink the memory on that one too, if you do it, and remember to take it very very slow.)

[Safari Ken]

On cooler choice, if the Zalman listed in my sig supports your socket (1366LGA), I can heartily recommend it. It requires a backplate due to it's weight (backplate is included), it has a very smart and effective cooling paste included, and it's made of a fat bunch of copper plates (0.1mm thick each). It also allows you to install an external fan speed control (included) if sound is a problem - though I don't hear it at all while it's on full, but the option is there.

 

I second that about the Zalman. My newest setup has a lot of hardware inside, but with the combination of a Zalman 9700 fan and my Antec 900 case (with its whopper of a 200mm exhaust fan on top), I can't push it above about 38 degrees Celsius. My old box idled at around that temperature. And also I agree about the noise. I have mine set close to full speed, and I can't hear it. I can BARELY hear it at full power, but as the first part of this paragraph illustrates, that's hardly necessary...

 

Once I started using the Zalman, I started to wonder why they even bother putting a stock fan with today's quad-core processors. I wouldn't ever go back to stock...

[EtherealN]

The one drawback with that Zalman is that you can easily cut your fingers to pieces on the thin copper plates while handling it. :P

 

EDIT:

One more note: please observe the fact that overclocking usually voids all warranties. As long as it's done in moderation and with method it's usually not really dangerous, but since the manufacturers aren't in control of it they will consider warranty void if you have done it.

Edited June 9, 2009 by EtherealN

[sshantt]

thanks man ill take it from here and zalman it is youve been amazing help and ill inform you when i overclock, i hope i reach 3.8ghz. so im deffinitely getting the zalman cooler if not liquid(just incase the zalman doesent fit), im gona research a bit about the coolers and highest succesful i7 overclocks and best software and prosedure. thanks again for all the advise

BTW my case has a hole on the side covered with a thin layer of metal with holes in them i think i can take that small cover off to give the zalman a couple of more centimeters)

 

and i kinda got to go cos, you might not belive me but, ive go midterms tomorow

Edited June 9, 2009 by sshantt

[mjolner]

I am still curious about your frame rate issues. I am runnin an E8400 (@ 4.4ghz ), 680I with 2 GB and a 9800GTX and I get between 50 and 120 FPS depending on whether in cockpit view and/or flying over a city. This is with settings maxed and 4x AA 8x filtering.

 

I cant see a minor overclock really gaining you that much performance. I can run my E8400 stock at 3.0 or up to 4.6 and only see a gain of about 10FPS. Now a Quad or i7 overclock might be different but as others have said BS wont take advantage of that anyway.

[dawestsides]

sshant

 

I'm the happy owner of the Coolermaster V8,I searched a lot before picking up this one,so as I told you before Thermalright True,V8 or Noctua are the most favourite choices amongst the OC community for the i7.Don't forget that the Nehalem processors run hotter than C2D's & C2Q's.

 

I do believe that Zalman is still the reference for 775 sockets,but not anymore for 1366.

 

Another very important point you need to check : the thermal paste,this small detail can totally void your OC experience!

 

I was just like you 2 months before,this is my first build and my first OC:

 

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=100580928&mpage=1&key=

(very proud of this one cause I got congrats from Peter Tan "Shamino",the world OC master :smartass:)

 

More details and pics of the build step by step:

 

http://www.megamers.com/forums/general-hardware/47099-my-x58-rig-alive.html

 

Ether your supposition is right,for the X58 platforms you can't unlink that ratio.

 

I suggested to sshant to keep it at 2:8 because setting at 2:10 will require to increase ram voltage as on auto it will not be enough,and I don't want him to start tweaking volts till he fully understands what he's doing and why.Also the ram he got isn't the best around,and you know how sensitive is this component.

 

About voiding warranty because of OCing,this why I went with EVGA,opposite to Gigabyte,Foxconn and Asus,they push you to play with your board!

 

Also e-leet helps a lot and saves a lot of time.

 

mjolner

 

I'm curious too...

 

 

sshant good luck,and when midterms done,start summer studying:BS trimming and overclocking!

Edited June 10, 2009 by dawestsides

[sshantt]

Thanks i have two more exams to go. im considering watercooling but i cant find a good water cooler cos i found out that i7's get hot real fast and i dont want to risk it if i dont get a good water cooler im just going to go with the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme 1366 RT but is there any other risk other than heat i should consider paying attention to.

 

btw your right about gigabyte wanting you to overclock thair like "do it, do it, do it" and the motherboards manual is all about over clocking which is kinda good but i just found the overclocking software that comes with it should i use it its called easytune 6 which is realy userfriendly or should i stick to E-Leet which i also have installed?.

 

I also checked out my BIOS screan and options that i have, i cant change the multiplier but i can change the qpi link which is currently 135.2 mhz hoping to reach 190 mhz with good cooling. speaking about cooling i wanted to know if the paste comes with the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme 1366 RT and i also wanted to know how to take of the old paste.I attached pics of Easytune 6 check them out.thanks in advance.

Edited June 10, 2009 by sshantt

[sshantt]

 

 

i just saw this the cooler master v10 is the top of the line, not bad and for 120$ what do you think?

[sshantt]

i took pics of my pc you have the V8 dont you? do you think it will fit?

and if youve seen any of the folowing coolers whoch do you think will fit

 

OCZ OCZTVEND2 Vendetta 2 CPU Cooler

Cooler Master V10

Cooler Master V8 Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme

Xigmatek Thor's Hammer

 

http://yfrog.com/5adsc00258zjx

 

 

(if there is a better forum for this please post a link)

thanks

Edited June 10, 2009 by sshantt

[InFireBaptize]

My pc runs an i7 proccesor 2.8ghz, 6GB ddr3 RAM, ATI HD 4870 x2 2GB video card,Windows Vista 64 bit, and get a 36 fps on BS even when using all cores, and BS settings maximized. When using average BS settings i get 50 fps, and when i use minimal settings i get 140 fps, all in the cockpit.

What do you advise me to do, because i realy care about cockpit resolution and other BS settings. Is there another way to increase frame rates if not what fps setting should i stick to.

 

Have you changed something in the catalyst control panel? read help on what settings to change and not to change? some settings you should leave on "let the application decides" also make sure AI is enabled. If you put this PC together, does your power supply supplies enough power for you PC/graphic card, have you checked the graphic card minimum power supply requirement?

[Snacko]

36 fps on BS even when using all cores...

 

I have a i7 965, but I only see it running on Core 1 & 3 it seems. Is there some tweak to tell the game to use all cores??

 

See CPU Usage in Task Manager:

 

Snack

[sshantt]

CCC is optimized to full best preformance and yes there is a program that helps you use all cores, I use DCS Affinity or something like that i forgot but i think it is dcs affinity its free and safe try it.

[EtherealN]

Snacko, there's a thread somewhere around here that was extensively tested with all cores active on the i7 platform. There is no gain in getting more than the second core. Maximus_G plotted FPS in identical scenarios and there just weren't any gain.

 

This holds up good to predictions based on the fact that DCS is single-threaded. It'll benefit from being able to switch core, but it is never actually doing synchronous operations on several cores. Therefore, no point trying to get it to run on all four.

[Snacko]

Thanks EtherealN.

[DarthElvis]

No offence meant to anybody here, but I think your coming to the wrong place for overclocking advice. Before you even touch your bios, you should hit SEVERAL dedicated OC sites and do some research. I've seen alot of bunk advice thrown around on game forums (none that I noticed in this thread), I even saw someone tell someone else to not bother running any anti-virus at all - on these boards too.

You have expensive stuff there, I would hate to see it messed up because of bad advice. Besides, if someone here knows what they are doing- they probably frequent a dedicated oc site.

And dont forget the #1 rule : If you don't know what it does, don't **** with it.

[EtherealN]

Darth-elvis, that's why he was linked to an article specifically aimed at beginners and told to read as many more he can find.

 

Your objection has already been covered. ;)

[DarthElvis]

Darth-elvis, that's why he was linked to an article specifically aimed at beginners and told to read as many more he can find.

 

Your objection has already been covered. ;)

So he was, my bad. Thats what you get for skimming. Still, my #1 rule can't be stressed enough ;)