Guest ruggbutt Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 What else are you people gonna complain about? I can understand why most developers don't bother w/sims any more. First it was Starforce, now it's the price. What's next? I forgot, you're complaining that it's already out in the CIS. Be thankful that we're getting anything out of ED. I can imagine the raping that they took at the hands of UBI. For a second I thought I was on the UBI boards. Pay the damn $35. The real world facts are: this is how capitalism works. Now you're gonna bitch about the difference in price of $20. What about the people in Australia that are paying $90 for their games? Or Canada that pay 35 percent higher for most of their games. CIS countries pay $7. Western countries pay $35. These are the facts and there's nothing you can do to change it. Put up or shut up. This is getting old, people.
SwingKid Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 I hope this is just a joke. I have to pay 35 $ while russian citizens around 5-7 $ ? AFAIK, Russian citizens will pay the same price as Western citizens for the download version, and Western citizens are offered the same price at the retailer as Russian citizens. Can you provide a link that says otherwise? -SK
condor11 Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 Actually I'd be glad to pay more as this money goes to devs and goes towards 1.2 To all those that complain - ask yourself, if 1.1 never came out what would you do? What would you fly? Falcon? MSFS? Falcon is dying, there is more politics there than lines of code and support. MSFS is civilian only with scripted FM. If your concern about 1.1 is money and I mean money of 35$ than maybe this hobby isn't that important to you. Well, no one is forcing you, really. ED could charge $100 and they'd still sell good and probably made more money too. Why? Because there is no competition anymore. It all died or moved on to make "Dress Barbie" games.
SwingKid Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 Put up or shut up. Is this really necessary? I think the language barrier we have to deal with is troublesome enough without silencing people. Let people discuss it, and learn more about the retail system that has destroyed quality products for themselves. Suppression makes people only more convinced of conspiracy. -SK
SwingKid Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 It all died or moved on to make "Dress Barbie" games. Exactly. It is not "Russia vs West", but rather, retailer vs. retailer - a war in which complex products are the first to lose. Has any developer ever been allowed to sell its own product directly, for a lower price than the official MSRP that is regularly discounted in shops? No shop would agree to buy from that developer, who is competing against itself. To say this is a "Russian" phenomenon is almost bigotry, let alone that we are here talking about two different products, one of which actually cost more to make. -SK
Bug11 Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 i haven't bothered reading through the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been asked. I'll check the thread when i have a little more time. *CIS countries pay approx 7 Euro for a retail boxed set. *People in the west pay whatever amount but it is hundreds of percent higher for an electronic version. Is there a real reason this is done besides that the charge for western countries is more in line with the price of other comparative software?
ED Team Groove Posted March 31, 2005 ED Team Posted March 31, 2005 AFAIK, Russian citizens will pay the same price as Western citizens for the download version, and Western citizens are offered the same price at the retailer as Russian citizens. Can you provide a link that says otherwise? -SK I was just asking if this will be the method. But thx for answer SK ! Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 Is this really necessary? I think the language barrier we have to deal with is troublesome enough without silencing people. Let people discuss it, and learn more about the retail system that has destroyed quality products for themselves. Suppression makes people only more convinced of conspiracy. -SK It's simple economics which have already been discussed. What's being focused on is that depending on where you live you pay more. The ones complaining aren't interested in the whys and hows, they're upset because they perceive someone is getting a better "deal" than they are. There's a huge difference between wanting to know how economics/capitalism work and some perceived slight being fired in their direction because someone is able to buy the sim cheaper. I stand by my put up or shut up quote. No one is forcing them to buy it at $35. If you can get a better deal elsewhere then buy it, otherwise that's fair market value.
BIOLOG Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 Guys... I will not point out the posts, but please start watching your language... Also please stop turning this into Russian v Western thing... There is really no reason what so ever to do that. As SK already pointed out, people on the West can freely go to ozone.ru and buy Flaming Cliffs there for about 7$... WEll, plus delivery, but that's about 5$... (I am in UK atm and order DVD's from there sometimes) And if you really want to support ED, you can go and buy Electronic Version, and the money will go to ED! Of cause copy on ozone is Russian version, but I suppose there was no reason for them to produce englishe version. Tnx for keeping this tread civil :) The bird of Hermes is my name eating my wings to make me tame.
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 And if you really want to support ED, you can go and buy Electronic Version, and the money will go to ED! Exactly! Who else is releasing anything worthwhile in a jet sim?
Guest Dlink Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 It's simple economics which have already been discussed. What's being focused on is that depending on where you live you pay more. The ones complaining aren't interested in the whys and hows, they're upset because they perceive someone is getting a better "deal" than they are. There's a huge difference between wanting to know how economics/capitalism work and some perceived slight being fired in their direction because someone is able to buy the sim cheaper. I stand by my put up or shut up quote. No one is forcing them to buy it at $35. If you can get a better deal elsewhere then buy it, otherwise that's fair market value. What a blatant false generalization of those that don't share your view. I know exactly WHY it is so 'cheap' , my point was that this throws the whole 'piracy causes high prices' argument right out the window.
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 You just want to argue to argue. I run my own business, part of the expenses for my product is employee theft. I pass that along to the consumer. And if I lose money (or don't make my profit margin) on each job, then I up the price to make up for it.
schimmel Posted March 31, 2005 Posted March 31, 2005 my point was that this throws the whole 'piracy causes high prices' argument right out the window. I agree. At a piracy rate of 89% you have two choices. Set a high price and nobody buys the game or set it low and at least sell some copies. As for the analogy of rugbutt. If people start to just rob everything out of your shop, you're happy to at least sell a few things for a few cents before closing down. I was really shocked by this price of 7$. This is bad for ED. I may seem like a pessimist, but for me this is a bad sign. No publisher in the world would even care for a market with a 89% piracy rate where you can sell a game for 7$. Although I would never morally condemn software/movie piracy in poor countries. On the other hand, is someone poor who is able to buy a high end computer? Because I doubt computers are that much cheaper in Russia. Or maybe ED, as a russian based business, is able to develop with less money.
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 I spent three months in Russia! Town of Udachny, Yakutia, deep into Siberia! ED is doing right thing by setting a market price for Russian market conditions! I know, I was there! I was at Red Square! I still exchange e-mails with few friends in Moscow! Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
Guest Dlink Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 You just want to argue to argue. I run my own business, part of the expenses for my product is employee theft. I pass that along to the consumer. And if I lose money (or don't make my profit margin) on each job, then I up the price to make up for it. Do you also calculate lost sales because someone else was able to offer a better price or perhaps faster delivery and therefore you lost a sale. OR do you calc prices by calcing expenses, and figuring out how many items you need to sell to cover all expenses plus make a profit. If you start to lose sales because someone is undercutting you, do you raise your prices to make up the difference. I am trying to compare apples to apples, you keep trying to compare apples to rice. Employee theft is REAL, no argument there. Your contention is that employee theft from your business is the same as a competitor undercutting your price and selling to someone who 'might' have purchased from you. If I ran a business the way you describe the way software piracy works, everytime I lost a sale thru undercutting, worse location, or someone else having a better ad campaign, I would raise my prices instead of lower them because I would have to make up for those lost sales.
Guest ruggbutt Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 DLink, there is only one Flaming Cliffs. It has to do w/standards of living. If my standard of living stayed the same in a country that only cost me 1/3rd as much to live in, do you think I'd be in business long if I charged 3x as much? As I said, you only want to argue. I do quite well in my business and don't have to drop my prices. Often I get calls to come fix what the guys that undercut me screwed up. I've paid cash for a brand new vehicle and also for a 2200 sq. ft. home in a nice part of town. I don't have any payments............I do understand business and the nuances of same. I can charge 3x as much for my work in Hawaii , as prices are higher there regarding my line of work. The same can't be said for Arizona. Thanks for the lesson in economics and being a successful businessman, but I'm doing fine thankyou.
Guest Dlink Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 DLink, there is only one Flaming Cliffs. It has to do w/standards of living. If my standard of living stayed the same in a country that only cost me 1/3rd as much to live in, do you think I'd be in business long if I charged 3x as much? As I said, you only want to argue. I do quite well in my business and don't have to drop my prices. Often I get calls to come fix what the guys that undercut me screwed up. I've paid cash for a brand new vehicle and also for a 2200 sq. ft. home in a nice part of town. I don't have any payments............I do understand business and the nuances of same. I can charge 3x as much for my work in Hawaii , as prices are higher there regarding my line of work. The same can't be said for Arizona. Thanks for the lesson in economics and being a successful businessman, but I'm doing fine thankyou. Can you post a link to where I said that ED should be charging more in russia than they are. NO, because I never said that. I said that with the price they are charging in russia shows that they have to sell at the price that the market will bear, and it proves that piracy doesn't cause high prices because the price should be higher in areas of higher piracy. In fact I believe that massive piracy causes lower prices because the companies have to compete. Lets look at your business for example. Would you charge $100 for your product if other equally competent sellers were selling it for $25. Remember that a copy of a game is virtually (though not always) the exact same quality of the original. Nice to see the old standbys come out, "I am a lawyer/businessman/pilot therefore I know what I am talking about". http://forums.therumble.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=805 17 years old eh...wow, you joined 3 years ago, you must be some successfull, 20 years old , paid cash for a 2200 sq ft house , and a new car. Wow I am humbled. Does this qualify me to call BS on your post about the house and the car. Of course now you will claim that isn't you. BUT then again I have seen you post over at simhq as both BSR_RUGGBUTT and just RUGGBUTT.
Guest ruggbutt Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 17 years old eh...wow, you joined 3 years ago, you must be some successfull, 20 years old , paid cash for a 2200 sq ft house , and a new car. Wow I am humbled. Does this qualify me to call BS on your post about the house and the car. Of course now you will claim that isn't you. BUT then again I have seen you post over at simhq as both BSR_RUGGBUTT and just RUGGBUTT. Do you really think that I'd post my real age? Do you think I'm a hamster slicer for real? My great grandparents on both sides of my family are from Prague, I'm U.S. born. Get a clue. If you really must know for sure, contact Crizak, I know him personally. I might be a prick DLink, but I don't need to lie to be someone's internet hero. And I apologize for this spilling over here w/DLink. I just now realized who he is. The Rumble link he posted clued me in. My temp website
Guest Dlink Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 Do you really think that I'd post my real age? Do you think I'm a hamster slicer for real? My great grandparents on both sides of my family are from Prague, I'm U.S. born. Get a clue. If you really must know for sure, contact Crizak, I know him personally. I might be a prick DLink, but I don't need to lie to be someone's internet hero. And I apologize for this spilling over here w/DLink. I just now realized who he is. The Rumble link he posted clued me in. My temp website Yah right..hahahha.... No you just start threads to suck up to the devs on how you are going to buy their game no matter what. You are really too funny. Who I am, btw, I am curious , who do you think I am. The Rumble link came from typing ruggbutt into google.
Guest Dlink Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 Do you really think that I'd post my real age? Do you think I'm a hamster slicer for real? My great grandparents on both sides of my family are from Prague, I'm U.S. born. Get a clue. If you really must know for sure, contact Crizak, I know him personally. I might be a prick DLink, but I don't need to lie to be someone's internet hero. And I apologize for this spilling over here w/DLink. I just now realized who he is. The Rumble link he posted clued me in. My temp website Nope, you wouldn't post your 'real' age, but you would post the website for you business and give other details of your life....yah, right.
Shepski Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 This thread is done guys... take the bickering private please.
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