JDAMS & TOO1 / TOO2 & multiple targets

[markturner1960]

So am fairly familiar but returning to the Hornet after a while away and have some queries....in Chucks guide, page 413 that you need to release each JDAM THEN re target rather than designating several targets and rippling them......I have done this, I know it works.....so...Chucks guide needs updating? 

Can someone tell me about how TOO1 / TOO2 works as I cant see it explained in any of the youtube guides I found or in Chucks....If you can designate multiple different targets using the targeting pod, why do you need TOO1 & 2? Why is there only TOO1 & 2, not 3,4,5,6 etc? 

Practicing yesterday, I was finding that on stepping, it goes back to TOO1, why is this ? 

Basically whats the how and why of this feature please

Edited December 18, 2024 by markturner1960

[Tholozor]

TOO1 and TOO2 are individual to each weapon station (i.e. TOO1 on STA2 is different from TOO1 on STA8). This permits you to have up to 8 total individual TOO targets across all 4 stations, as the Hornet's maximum JDAM load is 8 total (2 for each station if loaded on BRU-55). Stepping to another station will invoke that station's last selected TOO mission.

As an example, let's say you have 4 JDAMs loaded on BRU-55 racks on Stations 3 and 7, and you have 4 targets you want to engage. You might designate them like this:
- TOO1 on Station 7 on target 1
- TOO2 on Station 7 on target 2
- TOO1 on Station 3 on target 3
- TOO2 on Station 3 on target 4

Or you could do it like this:
- TOO1 on Station 3 on target 1
- TOO1 on Station 7 on target 2
- TOO2 on Station 3 on target 3
- TOO2 on Station 7 on target 4

Since the system doesn't "assign" TOO missions to individual weapons mounted on the rack, you would have to manually switch between TOO1 and TOO2 for each station between drops, otherwise *both* weapons on the rack would release on the same TOO mission.

Personally, I prefer to use the second method of assigning targets between TOO1 and TOO2 on each station, as the active station will automatically step to the next one when a weapon is released. This way I can release all the weapons on their TOO1 missions first, then switch them to TOO2 as it steps back through the release order.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Tholozor

[Phantom711]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb markturner1960:

Why is there only TOO1 & 2, not 3,4,5,6 etc? 

First of all, I agree with all of what Tholozor said. Also there is lots of outdated information out there, especially regarding ripple releasing JDAMs.

Regarding your question:

Tholozor has answered it already pretty much. But also think of the real life use case: JDAMs are primarily designed to strike stationary targets with known coordinates. That‘s what the PP missions are for. You usually don‘t fly to an enemy airfield and say „oh, I feel like bombing THAT shelter“.

The TOO missions are for dynamic targets or CAS. Now how many targets at once do you expect to get on those types of missions really…?

[markturner1960]

Excellent - between you both, thats my query answered perfectly! Many thanks, I have been racking my brains why all my bombs are not hitting the right targets ....I could do 4 no problem, but struggled with 8 my procedure for 8 was:(Procedure for 4 was just steps 1 & 2) 

1) Set up the JDAMS (TOO, Inst fuze, manual release)

2) Designate 4 targets in a row for TOO1 (stepping to next station and a fresh designation for each target

3) Box TOO2, designate target 5, step, box TOO2 again, designate target 6, step, etc for the rest

4) Box all stations on QTY page

5) When in range, press pickle - 4 bombs come off. Press Pickle again..the remaining 4 come off

However, they all seemed to go to targets 5,6,7 & 8....

What was my mistake in that procedure? And fair point about wether its ever going to come up in a mission, this was more about understanding the principles

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

However, they all seemed to go to targets 5,6,7 & 8....

TOO1 and TOO2 must be switched manually. Because you set all the stations on TOO2, none of them went for TOO1. After you drop the first 4, switch all the stations to the other TOO mission and then pickle.

[markturner1960]

Here is where it gets confusing, as I thought that was what I was doing in the process above at point 3 in the list? When I boxed TOO2, in the mission page, the co ordinates area was blank, and populated when I designated the next target. I assumed I was designating 4 targets for TOO1 and the last 4 for TOO2..........I will try again and double check 

[Muchocracker]

2 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

Here is where it gets confusing, as I thought that was what I was doing in the process above at point 3 in the list? When I boxed TOO2, in the mission page, the co ordinates area was blank, and populated when I designated the next target. I assumed I was designating 4 targets for TOO1 and the last 4 for TOO2..........I will try again and double check 

You have to designate and step to the next station and designate for the first 4. Which will input into TOO1 with no additional work.

You then have to switch to TOO2 and designate, switch stations and select TOO2 then designate for all 4 stations. 

Then when you drop. You pickle the first 4. Then on the 5th swap to the OTHER TOO preset, pickle, then do the same thing for the other 3 stations. 

[Phantom711]

Yes, you are almost there.

So in short:

vor 13 Stunden schrieb markturner1960:

5) When in range, press pickle - 4 bombs come off.

Then step through each STA and select the other TOO (In your case it apparently was on TOO2 on the first drop, so switch to TOO1).

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb markturner1960:

Press Pickle again..the remaining 4 come off

 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Phantom711

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Does this work for 8xJSOWS as well?
(Update: Yes it does.)

I followed Tricker’s video tutorial which is basically as described above but all 4 JSOWS of TOO1 hit the last designated point of TOO1 and the next 4 JSOWS of TOO2 hit the last designated point of TOO2. Seems like all the previous 3 coords are replaced by the 4th coord in each TOO set.
(Update: Do not box the 4 stations in QTY before the target designation process. Only after. See here.)

Edited December 20, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Tholozor]

Should work for JDAM and JSOW.

[Phantom711]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb GrEaSeLiTeNiN:

Seems like all the previous 3 coords are replaced by the 4th coord in each TOO set.)

Did you box all 4 stations in the QTY setting before you designated the 4 targets? Then this happens. The designation will apply to all stations that are boxed, that‘s why all hit the last designated target.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Phantom711

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

16 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

Did you box all 4 stations in the QTY setting before you designated the 4 targets? Then this happens. The designation will apply to all stations that are boxed, that‘s why all hit the last designated target.

Was just about to reply after some extensive testing. Yes! Like you said, one must not box all 4 stations under QTY before the designation process. Doing so causes all 4 JSOWS/JDAMS in TOO1 to use only the last (4th) designated coord even though each target designation shows a new coord. But when you step through the 4 stations, you'll see only the last coord is used. The same problem will happen when you designate the next 4 JSOWS/JDAMS in TOO2 where again only the last (8th) designate coord is remembered. Seems rather strange.

Edited December 20, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Phantom711]

@GrEaSeLiTeNiN

I think it‘s not implausible behavior, just a bit of a pitfall.

Again, JDAMs, and JSOWs probably even more so, are primarily designed to be used against stationary targets with well known coordinates. It‘s simply in the nature of DCS that the TOO mode is used more extensively because designating a tgt with the TGP is mor fun (and easier) than punching in coordinates.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Phantom711

[markturner1960]

 Excellent, glad to finally understand whats going and why. Thanks all, going to update my kneeboard page for this accordingly