LEAVU development phase, coding MPCD graphics

[EtherealN]

Another option would be a feature where the server can dictate the export.lua settings. Pretty much the same way a server will send you the mission file - if the server is set to check your export, and it finds that yours doesn't match, it'll send you a new one and force the client to use that one.

 

Is the lua limited to being loaded when you start the application? If not that might be a relatively simple fix.

 

One thing that would be interesting to know though is whether LEAVU2 can paint more complex shapes. What I see ahead of me would be a projector with LEAVU2 that projects to a HUD rig in front of the screen, and an app like BSVE to make the rest of the cockpit. If that works it would be a neat use of this outside of the datalink stuff.

Edited December 4, 2009 by EtherealN

[RvEYoda]

Another option would be a feature where the server can dictate the export.lua settings. Pretty much the same way a server will send you the mission file - if the server is set to check your export, and it finds that yours doesn't match, it'll send you a new one and force the client to use that one.

 

Is the lua limited to being loaded when you start the application? If not that might be a relatively simple fix.

 

One thing that would be interesting to know though is whether LEAVU2 can paint more complex shapes. What I see ahead of me would be a projector with LEAVU2 that projects to a HUD rig in front of the screen, and an app like BSVE to make the rest of the cockpit. If that works it would be a neat use of this outside of the datalink stuff.

 

it can .

LEAVU 2 has a primitive OpenGL engine. I can draw all basic shapes that OpenGL can.

I have made all my shapes out of lines, triangles, boxes etc.

 

It can quite easily be made to make a HUD :)

 

( it could potentially also draw HW accellerated 3d ;), i did that for fun when starting development )

Edited December 4, 2009 by =RvE=Yoda

[EtherealN]

So it seems like the limitations of BSVP and LOVP are indeed properly filled with this.

 

Since you are better versed in it, is there anything that you'd consider feature-incomplete as far as it's use in simpits go? I'm currently torn between either starting mine as a physical pit or going the BSVP route with extra screen, and it's easier to just set up a couple screens and then set up the cockpit instruments in software than build everything as physical objects (especially since I don't have a CNC mill handy. :P ).

 

( it could potentially also draw HW accellerated 3d ;), i did that for fun when starting development )

 

Frontier: Elite II style "radar"? :megalol:

Edited December 5, 2009 by EtherealN

[Total]

While having functional electro-mechanical guages would be a serious plus for a simpit, setting up a couple of monitors behind a cutout would probably be the better choice online given the exploits possible with the export.lua

 

Take BaD CRC's Blackshark pit as an example. All of the guages and the ABRIS, are there. Just on monitors behind a cutout.

 

 

LEAVU, while a very inventive addon, shouldn't be allowed in online play unless, as stated earlier, there was a export.lua settings could be specified via server side. Personally, I think that would probably be the best and fastest route to achieve.

 

I have tried LEAVU and, until someone pointed out the exploits possible, I thought it was a hechuva idea. Now I think it's a heckuva idea that's dangerous to the online community. A player being able to extrapolate data that should not be accessible is not a good thing ;)

 

At the same time, there needs to be a way for the pit enthusiasts to play online without having the means to exploit the game.

[RvEYoda]

You don't need to use the export.lua file for stats, same lua files as the mission manager we're running, server/event.lua etc. You can always add the trackview lua file to the server export.lua as well...

 

Strange.

You say that you can access LoGetObjectById and LoGetWorldObjects from outside export.lua?

I have tried it before and i did not succeed. This works for you ?

[Vekkinho]

OK I've been trying to catch up with everything posted in the last 24 hours and we're talking 100+ posts (most of them very long reads)! Of course I didn't read everything in between so 'scuse me for asking if already answered!

 

Here's the thing, Yoda said that not every F-15C had the datalink back in the '90s but let's assume they all evolved, got modernized and so are given this posibility by 2009. Now, if we welcome LEAVU implementation in MP can we make sure servers can set the rules of enabling LEAVU lua only for F-15C slots on the mission server is running?! Can we somehow "discriminate" F-15C slots from every other flyable aircraft slots in the mission?

 

This would prevent vanilla Su-25 players having datalinks and IIRC it's realistic!

[RvEYoda]

OK I've been trying to catch up with everything posted in the last 24 hours and we're talking 100+ posts (most of them very long reads)! Of course I didn't read everything in between so 'scuse me for asking if already answered!

 

Here's the thing, Yoda said that not every F-15C had the datalink back in the '90s but let's assume they all evolved, got modernized and so are given this posibility by 2009. Now, if we welcome LEAVU implementation in MP can we make sure servers can set the rules of enabling LEAVU lua only for F-15C slots on the mission server is running?! Can we somehow "discriminate" F-15C slots from every other flyable aircraft slots in the mission?

 

This would prevent vanilla Su-25 players having datalinks and IIRC it's realistic!

 

Actually im tryingt o say all F-15s had some form of datalink,

but only some had the modern variant. So LEAVU models an older type.

 

"Can we somehow "discriminate" F-15C slots from every other flyable aircraft slots in the mission? "

- yes, but is is not practical.

The server must enforce a specific Export.lua that is used by all players. They must install

it before being allowed to join the server, and it doesnt make that much sense.

Still it is good for events or specialized servers, but not airquake servers ( The avg Joe will wonder

why he cannot join with his standard installation ).

This way only F-15s get taht datalink ( assuming we want to limit it to F-15s )

 

I could write some software like "export-swapper" that allows you to have a set of export.lua files.

One is the default one , one a modded one, one a modded one with strict AC control, and one something else.

Because it is tiring to go copy paste files each time you want to join a new server, it would be better

if it was automated. But it is also not a very good idea since it would need to replace hyperlobby...

 

For example you can make a server hosting software where each server reports what mods are installed.

Then when you click join it says "could not activate mod X on yoru system. Have you installed it? Get it at

www.blablabla.com". I have asked for a possibility to export ingame server browser list of servers to an

external software that could enable this. Unfortunately I am doubtful such a thing holds priority

Edited December 5, 2009 by =RvE=Yoda

[GGTharos]

18 F-15s from Elmendorf had the JTIDS class 2 terminals since I think around '86 to test them out. All F-15's were to have them for desert storm, but they were canceled due to cost/reliability issues.

 

However, those were not FDL terminals, they were JTIDS - the link-16 that links up AWACS, Patriots, Aegis, fighters, bombers, ground troops, and in general ... everything. F-15's apparently have always had some form of FDL, but details are scarce.

 

All F-15's, IIRC, have had MIDS since 2004 (upgrades started in 99)

 

Mind you, this is just a bit of a history thing, to answer your question, yeah, there are probably ways of discriminating, it just requires some more development time.

 

Security is a huge and difficult task, and it will never be perfect. We can try to lock it up fairly tight, though. Technically speaking LEAVU could be adapted with a Russian looking FDL for the flankers (which should have one as well), and CGI capability for MiGs and flankers - maybe it could even get tied in with LOTATC.

 

LEAVU could provide a pastel simulation for the Su-25T as well, since it's supposed to have one (it's an RWR).

 

Here's the thing, Yoda said that not every F-15C had the datalink back in the '90s but let's assume they all evolved, got modernized and so are given this posibility by 2009. Now, if we welcome LEAVU implementation in MP can we make sure servers can set the rules of enabling LEAVU lua only for F-15C slots on the mission server is running?! Can we somehow "discriminate" F-15C slots from every other flyable aircraft slots in the mission?

 

This would prevent vanilla Su-25 players having datalinks and IIRC it's realistic!

[Vekkinho]

Actually im tryingt o say all F-15s had some form of datalink,

but only some had the modern variant. So LEAVU models an older type.

 

 

This way only F-15s get taht datalink ( assuming we want to limit it to F-15s )

 

 

OK thanks 4 quick reply, I did not know the fact on Eagles and datalink so please 'scuse me for being ignorant in my previous post!

 

Only F-15C having datalinks is what I wanted to hear, it's a step forward and prevents others form misusing LEAVU.

 

On the other hand, GCI/ATC mod providing datalink RUSFOR birds for can be used along LEAVU with LEAVU limited datalink for F-15C only and GCI/ATC limited to MiGs and Sukhois only!

 

This way you have ballance and realism at the same time!

[GGTharos]

Su-27s should have FDL as well.

[Vekkinho]

 

Security is a huge and difficult task, and it will never be perfect. We can try to lock it up fairly tight, though. Technically speaking LEAVU could be adapted with a Russian looking FDL for the flankers (which should have one as well), and CGI capability for MiGs and flankers - maybe it could even get tied in with LOTATC.

 

yes, as you can see I had the same "LEAVU for F-15 only and ATC/GCI datalinks only for Ruskie fighters" idea, but I didn't manage to check your post before writing mine!

[Mugatu]

LOL Keep dreaming :)

 

However, those were not FDL terminals, they were JTIDS - the link-16 that links up AWACS, Patriots, Aegis, fighters, bombers, ground troops, and in general ... everything. F-15's apparently have always had some form of FDL, but details are scarce.

[GGTharos]

Link-16 connects everything with a terminal. For ground troops (well, more specifically FACs, not every soldier gets a dlink) there's SADL <---> Link 16.

 

LOL Keep dreaming :)

[Vekkinho]

I'm fine with enabling F-15C LEAVU DLink and ATC/GCI datalink for RUSFOR fighters in Multiplayer!

 

I just want to prevent players who are flying planes that have none of these possibilities IRL from using anything similar in MP! I'd just like to prevent misuse of it!

 

Hell, most of the time I fly MiG-29A in MP (on a very few servers that have MiG-29A slots) and I'm fine with it's modelled ability! I wouldn't use "MPCD like datalink" 'cause I don't have it in real MiG-29A but that's me so I'd also make sure that nobody else who's flying MiG-29A can't use it!

 

On the other hand, GCI datalink is what should be granted to MiG-29 guys!

Edited December 5, 2009 by Vekkinho

[RvEYoda]

LOL Keep dreaming :)

 

Dreaming of reality then.

Datalinks are nothing magical or rare, or not even a new invention.

However why it may feel so can be that some of the not-ancient military

applications are being declassified

 

Some of the first missiles launched were command/data controlled, like

Vietnam Sa2 Sams.

 

old F106 US interceptor had targeting datalinks.

 

In the Su27 ground crew can steer your radar and designate targets for you.

 

These are just examples of primitive dlink implementations.

Edited December 5, 2009 by =RvE=Yoda

[Vekkinho]

Telemetry and telecommand was used in 19th century! ;)

 

Think of a cheater who had a knowlegde of it!

[104th_Crunch]

But if the server side will have modified export.lua (not match the original file) and client will have the same copy of modified export.lua then everything will be ok? Right?

 

I believe that this is the case, yes.

 

Sorry, are you saying that if you set a server's Lockon\Config\export folder where export.lua is to be checked, a server can have a custom modified export.lua because the client uses the server's version of export.lua, and still all the other files in that folder will be checked right? I have to step through your geek speak :)

[GGTharos]

You can add any files you want to the file checking list - I don't know if they can be any type, or just lua, but at the very least lua ones can be.

 

If you wanted for example to enforce a specific set of LUA mods, you could check the export.lua (which would run them, I imagine) and those files as well, to ensure everyone has the same stuff.

 

Sorry, are you saying that if you set a server's Lockon\Config\export folder where export.lua is to be checked, a server can have a custom modified export.lua because the client uses the server's version of export.lua, and still all the other files in that folder will be checked right? I have to step through your geek speak :)

[104th_Crunch]

Thanks GG. Looks like there are many options for servers to use. Sorry for the off topic about security. Looking fwd to the work being done here.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Crunch

[Panzertard]

Link-16 connects everything with a terminal. For ground troops (well, more specifically FACs, not every soldier gets a dlink) there's SADL <---> Link 16.

 

Sorry for my ignorance, I havent looked at it since F4 release - but doesn't it require JSTARS to be airborne?

[Mugatu]

Skinny Pipes <-> Medium Pipes == trouble don't oversell it GG.

 

"The Joint Interoperability Test at Ft. Huachuca successfully demonstrated gateway interoperability connecting the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System to SADL. Installed in a C-130, the gateway system-enabled F-16s were equipped with SADL to receive and display Link 16 surveillance data at a distance of more than 300 nautical miles.

 

The C-130 crew received situation awareness via electronic data that pinpointed the locations of EPLRS ground units. Then the C-130 crew was able to send text and 9-line data to the SADL-equipped F- 16s. The test was conducted in conjunction with the Air National Guard and the Air Force’s 42nd Airborne Command and Control Squadron."

 

Anything is possible with money and unfortunately there's not enough of it. We're all waiting for TTNT to become a reality.

 

 

QUOTE=GGTharos;794524]Link-16 connects everything with a terminal. For ground troops (well, more specifically FACs, not every soldier gets a dlink) there's SADL <---> Link 16.

[RvETito]

In the Su27 ground crew can steer your radar and designate targets for you.

 

Such type of systems are standart for russian interceptors since late '60s if not even earlier. They are semi-automatic i.e. the pilot recieves steering and other commands, sort of flight directors. On the MiG23MLD for example it can gives commands like "Kick the burner", "Turn on the radar" along with the flight directors which plot an optimal intercept profile for you. The idea is to intercept a target for a shortest time with minimum use of onboard sensors (hidden attack) in full radio silence. It's has worked quiet well but.. for a single target only. And of course the biggest drawback is that the pilot is left with SA close to zero. Most of the MiG-21 variants have it, MiG-23 and 29 as well. Nowadays it's found to be obsolete and is not used anymore though the onboard equipement is still there.

 

In the Su-27, being initialy designed as pure interceptor in the late '80s, I suppose such system is more advanced than the MiG-29's though it still rely on GCI and AWACS mostly.

 

AFAIK the most sofisticated russian data-link system from the Cold war has had the MiG-31 - it's the first fully airborne russian system allowing a wing of 4 planes to exchange what their radars see while typicaly flying line abreast. Thus they fully cover a corridor 800km wide.

[Panzertard]

Yoda, dear fellow.

Let me try to ask again :)

 

- With Export (currently) disabled, LEAVU will still be able to share D/L ownship data over the p2p network built into it.

 

Is it possible to limit the spread of the LEAVU versions containing that p2p code until ED can establish a working Export/Server control?

[104th_Crunch]

Panzertard, It seems that even if export is enabled, with the file checksum feature, if you add the export.lua file to the list of files to check, then a client cannot run a different export.lua than what the server has. So then, there is no need for a Export/Server control from ED. It seems it is already there as we can assume LO 2.0 will have the same checksum functionality that DCS:BS has at the very least as per the offical announcement for LO 2.0. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

Now, what I am really worried about is that it's looking like if a server wants to check many of the files that can be used by a client to gain an advantage, we will probably be losing a lot of mods. Walmis F15, skins etc, but that is a topic for another thread I guess.

[Grimes]

You can add any files you want to the file checking list - I don't know if they can be any type, or just lua, but at the very least lua ones can be.

 

So where is said file checking list (In Black Shark) and why wasn't its existence known until recently?