Will the Carrier ATC marshall incoming jets in a stack? ( Case 1)

[markturner1960]

As title, I have a mission and want to get a proper marshall stack going for the recovery of AI flights.....will the carrier do this? If so, what are the required parameters? And do I need to set anything up in the ME for this?

[Phantom711]

I don‘t know if the AI ATC will do that, but normal Case 1 ops are done „zip-lip“, so without much comms. Every squadron has an assigned altitude stack and 2 flights (might be even 3…anybody correct me on that) can be at one altitude at a time. 

[markturner1960]

Cheers, yes was talking specifically about the AI ATC. Pretty sure as you say in real life, you can have 4 jets in 2 pairs at the same altitude, at opposite sides of the stack circle.

This is a practice mission for me and my flight buddy, so just 2 of us…..so we need to rely on the AI for Marshall. It’s also part of wanting to understand exactly what and how you can achieve working with the DCS ai

[KevinAu]

When you get within 5 miles of the ship, you will auto report overhead. If there is no immediate reply from the ship, then you should enter the stack. Once the ship is ready for you, you will get a radio call telling you that your signal is charlie. You should get that call as soon as the last aircraft of the preceding flight that the atc has sequenced ahead of you has trapped. That is your cue to leave the stack and fly into your landing break. If there are other ai flights, you can see them also circling over the ship awaiting their charlie signal.

[Nealius]

Nothing needs to be set in the ME, the AI are handled automatically.

[markturner1960]

OK - thanks…..is it auto triggered by the initial 50 mile check in call, or only when you get nearer (5 miles) as per Kevin’s advice? And if no reply, how do you know which stack height? As far as I recall, I never heard stack heights being given out by the ATC for a case 1, …… of course this is done and done very well for Case 3…..or case 2 

[Nealius]

In CASE I the AI tends to go depending on your 5-mile tower call last I messed with them. If you're first to arrive you can go right in or set up at 2,000 and the AI will stack above you. If you're behind AI they'll stack at 2,000 and break the deck first.

[KevinAu]

It is auto triggered at 5 miles. But nothing happens unless you start the process with the 50 mile initial call.

[markturner1960]

So whats the standard AI procedure for say 8 recovering AI, in case 1 conditions? Will they stack on their own ? Or does this only happen if you are in the game & initiate with the 50 mile call ? If I am behind the AI, then I should get stacked at 3000.....yes? 

Has anyone ever had this happen? 

I am trying to test in my current mission, but its complicated by the fact that despite it being clearly case 1 conditions ( base @18K) I am given case 2 recovery and am not sure why...may be a bug, who knows! 

[KevinAu]

The ai will follow the proper procedures and stack in the port holding independent of what the player does. Where you stack is up to you. The game atc will not tell you.

[markturner1960]

Cheers! Thats a bit of an omission and especially as in case 2 & 3, you get marshalled in with all the AI flights and given stack heights....I wonder why its not the case for Case 1? 

[Nealius]

7 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

I wonder why its not the case for Case 1? 

Because it depends on squadron. IIRC typically the squadron with 1xx modexes gets 2,000ft, 2xx gets 3,000ft, and so on. If not on squadron then it would be pre-briefed. 

[markturner1960]

Are you talking about reality or in DCS here? If DCS, does that mean I can force stack heights by modex number? Pre briefed would only apply to a human flight of course…..

My queries are specifically regarding the AI , as I am trying to build a training mission with realistic AI recovery flights occurring and hoping to make so that my human flight is properly incorporated into the AI flights recovery pattern as it is done in the Case 3 recovery….. 

I don’t see why this should not be - as Case 3 is more complex and they have it working spot on for AI flights. 
 

Happy New Year BTW!

Edited January 1 by markturner1960

[KevinAu]

You can’t assign stack altitudes in the me for the ai flights. Once they hit the last waypoint before landing, they are going to fly whatever altitudes and route and speed and holding and landing patterns that they are going to do and you have no control over it.

[markturner1960]

OK. Thank you. Is it documented anywhere how they behave and what logic they follow? I would have thought it varied depending on number of aircraft / flights / etc....but cant figure out how......

And will the recovery instructions given to you as the human player vary according to what is happening with the AI flights? 

Edited January 2 by markturner1960

[norman99]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

And will the recovery instructions given to you as the human player vary according to what is happening with the AI flights? 

Nope. The only way to know what the AI is doing is via datalink/radar, or using the F10 map. (This is not incorrect for zip-lip procedures.)

Last time I checked too, (years ago now), if there were multiple flights recovering, than each flight was stacked at a separate level. Annoyingly, only if a flight had received the signal "Charlie" before you, will they recover before you. It seems currently as soon as you call "overhead" at about 3 miles, the player's flight is placed at the front of the queue, next inline behind anything currently in the landing pattern, regardless of where you are positioned in relation to other AI flights.

In practice, this means that if you arrive in the stack at 5K, with three flights below you (@ 2K, 3K, 4K), the first may/may not land, but the subsequent two will definitely wait for you to land first. Completely wrong, and it means descending through other aircraft, but it seems priority goes to the player at all times.

Edited January 2 by norman99

[markturner1960]

Cool, thanks....that seems like a big omission on ED's part to me....not sure why they would not wish to get case 1 working properly when they put so much work into case 3 working as it should.....