A Cold War Map...

[Tengah]

Having already written a whinging post regarding the questionable representation of the NATO airbases included in the initial release of the map else where in this forum, I would like to make a thread of my own regarding a couple of other "niggles" that are bugging me personally.

Forgive me if some of the points made herein have been brought up elsewhere in the forum, but this is my post, consider me reiterating said points...

Context: In my understanding, this map is being sold as a Cold War map, circa (at a guess) 60's through to late 80's / very early 90's.

1. Why are there racing cones all over the military low flying routes?  The "coned" air racing ala Red Bull style did not become a thing, certainly in Germany, until the early 2000's and would most definitely not be located along or intersecting NATO low flying areas.  Now, before anyone educates me on the history of air racing, I do appreciate that the sport has been a thing since the dawn of manned powered flight, but it was not present as represented during the stated time period of this map. 

Please forgive my ignorance, but might there be a way to hide or remove these cones on the map via the mission editor, or perhaps to remove the specific (offending) cone file from the map folder?  I don't know how anyone else feels, but they break the immersion of flying in a "Cold War" environment.  Of course, I do appreciate the "fun" factor and it's an extra selling point for the map, but...

2.  NATO Flightline equipment.  This may be something of an emotive subject, but why are the bases populated with non-military specific and most definitely civilian flightline items?  Once again, would anyone know how to remove these most offensive objects?  To my mind, these inane items could have been left out, saving the resources for elsewhere on the map.

A side note:

a. One of the big issues we had whilst low flying (anywhere in Europe) was gliders/paragliders, etc.  Gliding was/is a big sport in Germany, and care had to be taken in flight planning to avoid such areas on given days of the week. I feel this would be a good addition to the map.  Understandably, most of the big gliding areas were located outside of the map area, being further south (notably Stuttgart), but there were a few in the Rhine/Westphalia area.

Of interest, has anyone thought of creating a glider mod?

b. Is there any possibility of extending the map westwards to include at least the entirety of the Netherlands?  So many important locations there, airbases (Leeuwarden, Volkel, Soesterburg, Gilze-Rijen) and weapons ranges (most notably the famous Vliehors Air Weapons Range, otherwise known as the Cornfield Range).  Also, perhaps stretching the map to include more of Belgium, featuring Florennes, Beauvechain, and Kliene Brogel?  I ask as considering the range of Phase 3, it seems a wasted opportunity not to include the entirety of the Low Countries and their important Cold War bases.

c.  Will Ugra Media include the Nordhorn Weapons range?  In my mind, this is an absolute must if the moniker "Cold War" is to be taken as such.

I realise that I might be presenting myself as something of a "Debby Downer" or "nit picker" with this post, if so, that is not my intention.  I am grateful for all of Ugra Media's efforts in bringing such an important and much requested map.  This map was a huge undertaking, and overall, Ugra has done a superb job.  I feel there is room for improvement/changes.  Having paid our money based on expectations according to the sales pitch (Cold War Germany), we all have the right to a voice of opinion.

I appreciate that this is an initial release and some (hopefully all) of the "niggles" maybe addressed in future updates.

Thank you, one and all, for once more putting up with my words.  My utmost gratitude to everyone at Ugra Media for releasing one of the best maps for DCS, certainly the one with the most potential. 

Edited Thursday at 09:20 AM by Tengah

[Northstar98]

On 4/24/2025 at 10:15 AM, Tengah said:

1. Why are there racing cones all over the military low flying routes?  The "coned" air racing ala Red Bull style did not become a thing, certainly in Germany, until the early 2000's and would most definitely not be located along or intersecting NATO low flying areas.  Now, before anyone educates me on the history of air racing, I do appreciate that the sport has been a thing since the dawn of manned powered flight, but it was not present as represented during the stated time period of this map.

I mean, they're cool for peacetime stuff, but are less at home in DCS.

We already have air racing pylons in static objects, allowing us to make our own courses should anyone wish to do so.

If it were me I'd remove them and include the pylons as a static object, that way I can more easily choose whether or not I want air racing courses.

On 4/24/2025 at 10:15 AM, Tengah said:

Please forgive my ignorance, but might there be a way to hide or remove these cones on the map via the mission editor, or perhaps to remove the specific (offending) cone file from the map folder?  I don't know how anyone else feels, but they break the immersion of flying in a "Cold War" environment.  Of course, I do appreciate the "fun" factor and it's an extra selling point for the map, but...

Definitely agree and yes, you can use the scenery remove objects action in the triggers menu. This will delete scenery objects within an area (defined by trigger zones).

Edited 21 hours ago by Northstar98

[Tengah]

Thank you, Northstar, for your reply. I wasn't sure if the remove objects would remove the cones or not, I figured they might have been somehow hard wired into the scenery.  I will give it a go.

[Saegio Glug Bendix]

I have not seen the map yet, nor do I have any clue about the era this map is meant to address. Despite actually being from the area I might add.

I just want to say that I don't think the OP is coming across as "nit picking" at all. And I hope that the devs at least consider, what I believe is, this absolutely legitimate feedback. Coming from someone who actually knows the context of the time and area.

I find it more than resonable to address aspects of a product which align with its sales pitch.

[sirrah]

Some good points brought forward by the OP.

In addition to point 1, I'd like to add that imho the hot air balloons are also out of place. I really do appreciate Ugra's effort and attention to detail, but there's simply no place for hot air balloons on a map that will primarily be used for combat scenario's. Secondly, but please correct me if I didn't observe it well, I think I haven't seen the hot air balloons move.

 

As for expanding the map further west; that'd be awesome (I did my internship on Leeuwarden AB back in 2001, so I'm all for that), but to be honest. If there's still room for expansion, I'd actually prefer expanding the map to the South to maybe add part of the Alps.

[mazex]

I am pretty sure that glider pilots would avoid flying while WW3 was rolling? Having said that, I agree that it was a problem in peace time. I have a fond memory from the the late 80-ies where me being 19 flying a glider got a radio message from a slightly older fellow glider pilot I recognized the voice of, checking if it was me flying in straight line over point x. When I responded, an AJ-37 Viggen passed under me, going vertical with full afterburner after he passed... I realized that my friend that also flew gliders was at work that day, in the Viggen This was in the Top Gun era, would not have happened today...

[Thamiel]

Those air race cones esp. feel out of place when located in the Rhine as that is a densely trafficked waterway with ships and barges passing by both ways every minute. Ludwigshafen/BASF would be furious if their replenishment was blocked by some guys in fancy aircrafts flying low around Koblenz.

Which takes me at surprise are those strange little details added to the map without any need to do so while breaking the immersion of what Germany looked like. Who on earth would raise an captive hot air balloon some 100 ft above the ground to stay there? Thats what they did in WWI to block gun runs. I strongly hope they will disappear with the next update along with those cones, windmills and inflationary water towers.

One would think that Ugra had some advisors and lots of source material available to prevent those mishaps during design.

 

[Tengah]

15 hours ago, mazex said:

I am pretty sure that glider pilots would avoid flying while WW3 was rolling?

This is a fair point, very fair indeed  . I often suffer from Derp Brain. Thank you for your response Mazex.

Thamiel, I have seen the infamous Ballooning activities, my first thought was "Who on earth would launch hot air balloons from the top of a hill?"...  Forgive my ignorance, I have only been to one ballooning event and that was when I was 9 years old, Bath Balloon Festival in the UK.  It was a very long time ago.  They were launching from wide open Farm Fields...  Of course, anyone with more experience can correct me, but I would have thought this would be the established way of launching balloons due to wind, etc.  Thank you for your response Thamiel.

Edited yesterday at 01:28 PM by Tengah

[Thamiel]

No prob. Personally, I would applaud a glider mod for DCS, but Im afraid the core would not support the finer details of it like moving air masses, judging from the current behavior of wake turbulences staying in place and such things.

[Tengah]

10 minutes ago, Thamiel said:

No prob. Personally, I would applaud a glider mod for DCS, but Im afraid the core would not support the finer details of it like moving air masses, judging from the current behavior of wake turbulences staying in place and such things.

I agree 100%. I was thinking along the lines of a static mod, with AI Gliders flying donuts in the sky but even then, your comment makes total sense; the AI would not perform correctly in the air.

Edited yesterday at 02:03 PM by Tengah