Level flight speed

[westr]

1 hour ago, felixx75 said:

You are right that you reach about 3100 rpm when you pull the lever down with the mouse. The physical position is the same (at least for me), but the rpm goes up and then you actually see smoke, which I would rather explain as pure stress on the engine. But of course I don't know that either...

So after first changing my prop governor to slider on axis tune options, I noticed I have full range on the handle. However I am still obtaining 2700rpm which i'm 99% sure I was obtaining before when my prop lever was not giving me full range. (Previously my governor was stopping short by a couple of inches) So now like I assume you are experiencing I click on the lever drag my mouse downward, experience no physical movement of the lever anymore but experience an increase in RPM from 2700 to 3300 but this can vary, depending if I'm climbing or descending sometimes it goes higher. 

But as before when I drag downwards on the handle with the mouse the faint plume of smoke appears, as soon as I pull back on the governor with my throttle lever the smoke stops. 

[felixx75]

3 minutes ago, westr said:

So after first changing my prop governor to slider on axis tune options, I noticed I have full range on the handle. However I am still obtaining 2700rpm which i'm 99% sure I was obtaining before when my prop lever was not giving me full range. (Previously my governor was stopping short by a couple of inches) So now like I assume you are experiencing I click on the lever drag my mouse downward, experience no physical movement of the lever anymore but experience an increase in RPM from 2700 to 3300 but this can vary, depending if I'm climbing or descending sometimes it goes higher. 

But as before when I drag downwards on the handle with the mouse the faint plume of smoke appears, as soon as I pull back on the governor with my throttle lever the smoke stops. 

Right, like me...

[westr]

9 minutes ago, felixx75 said:

Right, like me...

Yes now I have re-assigned my axis, by the sounds of what you have described. The physical way that this smoke shuts off as soon as I touch the RPM governor has me confused. Its like a shut off, I've looked externally and it comes to a stop as soon as I pull back on RPM. 

[DSR_T-800]

6 hours ago, westr said:

When I’m next on my PC I shall look at the figures I get for RPM. I don’t remember what they were. What I do know is I’ve gone from level flight of 260 kts to 320 kts since discovering this. 320 is more like the published level speed of the Corsair. 

320 knots is on the higher side, but the fastest figure I've seen is 317, which was the Navy's comparison of the P-51B vs F4U, IIRC. However, right now, if people are only capable of reaching 300knots, then that is level speed without water injection. So the wingracks are slowering her down siginificantly, or we've got a drag problem.

[westr]

6 hours ago, DSR_T-800 said:

320 knots is on the higher side, but the fastest figure I've seen is 317, which was the Navy's comparison of the P-51B vs F4U, IIRC. However, right now, if people are only capable of reaching 300knots, then that is level speed without water injection. So the wingracks are slowering her down siginificantly, or we've got a drag problem.

I think that this mouse dragging on the rpm lever and increasing rpm is water injection, I understand that RPM lever should not add water injection. And this is just my guess. I’m going to have a look this evening and see if it corresponds with the water warning light in the cockpit. 

Hopefully this will be cleared up soon. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:11 AM by westr

[felixx75]

32 minutes ago, westr said:

I think that this mouse dragging on the rpm lever and increasing rpm is water injection, I understand that RPM lever should not add water injection. And this is just my guess. I’m going to have a look this evening and see if it corresponds with the water warning light in the cockpit. 

Hopefully this will be cleared up soon. 

If this were the case, it would of course still be a bug. Especially as the rpm should not be higher than 2700 (according to the various known tables).

[westr]

Just now, felixx75 said:

If this were the case, it would of course still be a bug. Especially as the rpm should not be higher than 2700 (according to the various known tables).

Is that 2700 without injection though? 

[felixx75]

1 minute ago, westr said:

Is that 2700 without injection though? 

Yes, incl. WEP, which includes water injection

 

[westr]

19 minutes ago, felixx75 said:

Yes, incl. WEP, which includes water injection

 

Ok. Well then she is very sluggish. 

You know when you introduce water to the P47 the rpm lever increases in a very similar way to this whatever it is. Bug/feature. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:54 AM by westr

[felixx75]

24 minutes ago, westr said:

Ok. Well then she is very sluggish. 

You know when you introduce water to the P47 the rpm lever increases in a very similar way to this whatever it is. Bug/feature. 

The water injection is activated automatically. If you look at the throttle quadrant, you will see a detent. If you move the throttle beyond this detent, you break a safety wire and thus activate the water injection and WEP (the safety wire is also modeled, but not animated, unlike in the P-51, where you actually cut this wire). The rpm is not affected by this for the time being.

[westr]

3 minutes ago, felixx75 said:

The water injection is activated automatically. If you look at the throttle quadrant, you will see a detent. If you move the throttle beyond this detent, you break a safety wire and thus activate the water injection and WEP (the safety wire is also modeled, but not animated, unlike in the P-51, where you actually cut this wire). The rpm is not affected by this for the time being.

I understand all that you are saying, I get exactly what should happen to add water injection so let’s be very clear about that, I’m not trying to look at having an argument with you. What I’m saying is the way this is behaving is very similar to the water injection feature on the P47 and also the visual features as well are evident. You also have to factor in why the 3 is featured on the RPM gauge when it’s not possible to achieve above 2700 why is this animated? 
I’m not arrogant enough to suggest what I’m saying is right but a lot is not making sense right now especially how when adding the increase in RPM I’m achieving figures far closer the the published speed figures of the Corsair. 
There’s been a lot of users also only achieving only around 260 kts IAS. 
Something is not adding up. Maybe the RPM gauge is giving us false readings? 
maybe the throttle lever is not injecting water as it should. 

[felixx75]

22 minutes ago, westr said:

I understand all that you are saying, I get exactly what should happen to add water injection so let’s be very clear about that, I’m not trying to look at having an argument with you. What I’m saying is the way this is behaving is very similar to the water injection feature on the P47 and also the visual features as well are evident. You also have to factor in why the 3 is featured on the RPM gauge when it’s not possible to achieve above 2700 why is this animated? 
I’m not arrogant enough to suggest what I’m saying is right but a lot is not making sense right now especially how when adding the increase in RPM I’m achieving figures far closer the the published speed figures of the Corsair. 
There’s been a lot of users also only achieving only around 260 kts IAS. 
Something is not adding up. Maybe the RPM gauge is giving us false readings? 
maybe the throttle lever is not injecting water as it should. 

I don't want to argue with you either and it's obvious that something isn't working properly. Since the rpm lever has nothing to do with the water injection, this phenomenon is certainly a bug. However, since there is no display or lever for the water injection, it is currently difficult to determine whether it is implemented and if so, whether it is working properly.
We will likely have to wait for a dev's answer. ( @-Rudel-)

Edited Wednesday at 08:36 AM by felixx75

[Jexmatex]

whatever this is, the engine behaviour  seems odd to me, i hown and fly with all the warbird in DCS , on the corsair (i love it !) what i do is i'm always full throttle ahead and only move the governer command, it seems to stay in the good value for manifold and RPM which is strange, if someone can try this too.

Also the mixture is important and must be set accordingly to condition, middle position for landing, take of and transit, and full ahead when you need power, for combat.

[felixx75]

2 hours ago, Jexmatex said:

Also the mixture is important and must be set accordingly to condition, middle position for landing, take of and transit, and full ahead when you need power, for combat.

Mixture "Auto Rich" (forward position) is only needed for takeoff and landings, for eveything else use "Auto Lean" (middle position)
 

Edited Wednesday at 12:02 PM by felixx75

[Mistermann]

For those that might be interested in a more legible version of the table above.

Edited Wednesday at 01:54 PM by Mistermann

[DSR_T-800]

These figures are on the faster side for the Corsair, but I believe they are well within reason considering we have 3 examples of the her hitting 365mph@SL and 420mph+@criticalALT.  320Kts at SL, overboosting the engine to 75"Hg/>3000rpm, fails to reach the 'Special'(65"Hg) F4U-1 at 327Kts is a tell - tale sign shes just too draggy. Not to forget to mention its somehow slower a F4U w/o water injection.

This should certainely help in BFM energy management. The Corsair should be faster, hold energy better(?) and turn tighter than the P-47D.

Its earlier access and I don't have the slightless clue on how to make a flight model, so I'm going to refrain from judging, even though its hard to think how you'd get the basics wrong. However, this was same case with the P-47 being released initially w/o water injection, and the Bf-109K4 was either too slow or too fast.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:44 PM by DSR_T-800

[Razgriz10]

8 hours ago, felixx75 said:

The water injection is activated automatically. If you look at the throttle quadrant, you will see a detent. If you move the throttle beyond this detent, you break a safety wire and thus activate the water injection and WEP (the safety wire is also modeled, but not animated, unlike in the P-51, where you actually cut this wire). The rpm is not affected by this for the time being.

RPM should not be affected at all by introduction of water injection, you will only get a change in manifold pressure. In the Corsair that is an increase from about 53in Hg in military power, to about 59in Hg in WEP.  Both of those power settings are at 2700 rpm.  If you are in level flight, proberly trimmed, and have all the cooling shutters as closed as they can be to maintain temps with in allowable limits you can get about 300 knots indicated at around 10000ft in military power, which is almost bang on where it is supposed to be. What i suspect a lot of people are doing is opening the oil cooler shutters or the cowl flaps to much, both of which cause a lot of drag.

[Hayrake YE-ZB]

48 minutes ago, Razgriz10 said:

RPM should not be affected at all by introduction of water injection, you will only get a change in manifold pressure. In the Corsair that is an increase from about 53in Hg in military power, to about 59in Hg in WEP.  Both of those power settings are at 2700 rpm.  If you are in level flight, proberly trimmed, and have all the cooling shutters as closed as they can be to maintain temps with in allowable limits you can get about 300 knots indicated at around 10000ft in military power, which is almost bang on where it is supposed to be. What i suspect a lot of people are doing is opening the oil cooler shutters or the cowl flaps to much, both of which cause a lot of drag.

As usual when a new module drops, the enthusiasm and expectations cause a trip down the performance bunny hole. Now we’re in the “how do we overboost the hell out of the engine” mode.

Only way I can “get stuck” at 200-210 knots is to leave the landing gear extended. There might be a bug in there somewhere, perhaps a lack of hydraulic pressure prohibits the gear from retracting, but the code causes it to retract visually.

In your scenario, with cowl, oil and Intercooler flaps selected to full open, I topped out at 285 at SL 20ºC. The cowl flaps blow back about half way due to aerodynamic loads, which is pretty cool (pun unintended).

[Razgriz10]

28 minutes ago, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

As usual when a new module drops, the enthusiasm and expectations cause a trip down the performance bunny hole. Now we’re in the “how do we overboost the hell out of the engine” mode.

Only way I can “get stuck” at 200-210 knots is to leave the landing gear extended. There might be a bug in there somewhere, perhaps a lack of hydraulic pressure prohibits the gear from retracting, but the code causes it to retract visually.

In your scenario, with cowl, oil and Intercooler flaps selected to full open, I topped out at 285 at SL 20ºC. The cowl flaps blow back about half way due to aerodynamic loads, which is pretty cool (pun unintended).

I'll test it when i can but i suspect flight in a massive skid would also cause the speed reduction that people are talking about, but from my flying it seems pretty spot on the charts that i have seen.

[westr]

1 hour ago, Razgriz10 said:

RPM should not be affected at all by introduction of water injection, you will only get a change in manifold pressure. In the Corsair that is an increase from about 53in Hg in military power, to about 59in Hg in WEP.  Both of those power settings are at 2700 rpm.  If you are in level flight, proberly trimmed, and have all the cooling shutters as closed as they can be to maintain temps with in allowable limits you can get about 300 knots indicated at around 10000ft in military power, which is almost bang on where it is supposed to be. What i suspect a lot of people are doing is opening the oil cooler shutters or the cowl flaps to much, both of which cause a lot of drag.

300 kts at 10000ft.

What is your manifold pressure showing on your instrument gauge in this scenario? 

And what position is your supercharger?

Edited Wednesday at 06:23 PM by westr

[Arch-vile]

We have a growing number of people that are reporting this problem. I can upload screenshots later but mil-power and even WEP configuration does not appear to be generating speeds above 250-270kts in any configuration. Clean, cowl-flaps closed, etc. WEP also doesn't appear to have any impact when the water runs out so i'm not convinced that's working at all.

Using the mouse to jam the prop governor past the stop (looks like a bug to me) shouldn't be required to get the posted performance figures.

Sounds like some people are fine though? So we're really struggling to figure out why the performance is so bad, especially down low. FWIW at partial power it lines up with the charts pretty well. But Mil-power and WEP are falling far short for many of us. 

[felixx75]

2 hours ago, Razgriz10 said:

RPM should not be affected at all by introduction of water injection, you will only get a change in manifold pressure. In the Corsair that is an increase from about 53in Hg in military power, to about 59in Hg in WEP.  Both of those power settings are at 2700 rpm.  If you are in level flight, proberly trimmed, and have all the cooling shutters as closed as they can be to maintain temps with in allowable limits you can get about 300 knots indicated at around 10000ft in military power, which is almost bang on where it is supposed to be. What i suspect a lot of people are doing is opening the oil cooler shutters or the cowl flaps to much, both of which cause a lot of drag.

I assume you have quoted the wrong person, because you are saying exactly the same thing as I have said before, especially about rpm and water injection.

[westr]

12 minutes ago, Arch-vile said:

We have a growing number of people that are reporting this problem. I can upload screenshots later but mil-power and even WEP configuration does not appear to be generating speeds above 250-270kts in any configuration. Clean, cowl-flaps closed, etc. WEP also doesn't appear to have any impact when the water runs out so i'm not convinced that's working at all.

Using the mouse to jam the prop governor past the stop (looks like a bug to me) shouldn't be required to get the posted performance figures.

Sounds like some people are fine though? So we're really struggling to figure out why the performance is so bad, especially down low. FWIW at partial power it lines up with the charts pretty well. But Mil-power and WEP are falling far short for many of us. 

The Figueres you are getting are the figures that I am getting.

Marianas 20degrees. Clean aircraft, flaps fully up, Oil cooler closed, Intercooler fully closed. 8 kt tail wind Cowl flaps fully closed.

10,000 ft 2700rpm MP45 (reading), Supercharger 1st stage.

MP 60, Supercharger 2nd stage

MP 60 Supercharger 3rd stage 

Airspeed stays around 270kts

Climb to 10,500 ft. Dive to 300kts then level. Aircraft maintains 280 kts for a few minutes then settles back to 270kts. Supercharger set to 2nd stage.

Flown now for 40 mins. No overheating.

Out of interest can anyone tell me what the situation is with the water inject light? Does it flash red or go out once water is emptied?

And out of interest are people getting the same MP readings with these supercharger settings?

Edited Wednesday at 06:55 PM by westr

[felixx75]

3 minutes ago, westr said:

Out of interest can anyone tell me what the situation is with the water inject light? Does it flash red or go out once water is emptied?

It flashes, if you have only 3 minutes of water left and goes out, when water is empty.

Edited Wednesday at 06:56 PM by felixx75

[westr]

Just now, felixx75 said:

It flashes, if you have only 3 minutes of water left and goes out, when water is empty.

Thanks